Help with tenants to leave

merrychristmas2013

Hi sorry to bother you but wondered if someone could answer a quick question.

I have had tenants in a property now for 2 years. They was on a fixed term tenancy for a year but then once the year was up wanted to stay so I left it so it rolled over on a periodic tenancy.

For the last 5 months they have requested they want to leave then next month change their mind and so on. As I've had no problems with them as in they pay fine everything is going fine, I let it go but it would just be great to know when they are actually leaving now.

So I have thought about issuing a section 21 as I know that takes 2 months, then if they don't go you can apply to the court to get a possession order. I don't really want to do this, as I say I have no problems with them it's just a bit annoying not knowing what's happening every month.

There's just one big problem, in the beginning I was an accidental landlord and will fully admit didn't have a clue yes I know big mistake but I can't take it back you just have to go with what you've done lol I had really terrible agents (I know everyone says that but really they was, due to a lot of things, really should have researched more as well though) they took the deposit but didn't protect it like they should have, as it was stated in their contract with me. They protected it 3 months late after the tenancy begin so it's in a scheme now. (Many people said I should have given the deposit back to them but because it was in a scheme I didn't want to take it out in case that was wrong, as I say didn't know much at the time, as you can tell i'm still learning now.)

Apparently because of this a section 21 would be invalid so how do I do this? Do I need to take it out of the scheme now and give it back? I do understand the tenants can sue me for 3x the deposit but as I say I can't reverse time so I will deal with it if and when that happens but I just would like to sort this all out best I can.

As I said I have made many mistakes in this and it has been a massive learning experience and I just want to do everything properly now. Any help would be greatly appreciated Oh and Merry Christmas

poppysarah

Why do you want them to leave?

If the deposit is protected by the time you serve a s21 I think you're ok.

merrychristmas2013

To be honest I don't really, they are great in a lot of factors, but are not so great on other things, like understanding notices and i'm a bit worried they are going to just up and leave and not tell me, so i'd rather them know an actual date they have to go so we can sort everything out. If they said to me they wanted to stay for another 6 months i'd be happy with that but it's when they say they want to go then they don't then they do, then they don't lol

I have spoke to them today though and have arranged to visit them after Christmas so hopefully I can sort it all out then but I just wanted to check if I could actually issue a section 21 or not because of the deposit issue.

Thanks for your response

G_M

poppysarah wrote: »

If the deposit is protected by the time you serve a s21 I think you're ok.

Sorry. No.

If the deposit was protected late, any S21 will be invalid. AND the tenants can sue for the penalty. In this case the court would be unlikely to award the full 3 times penalty as the deposit was protected, albeit late. Perhaps 1 times penalty instead.

The only way to serve a valid S21 now is to return the deposit to the tenants first, in full (or less any amount that the tenants agree to).

But since the tenants are paying regularly, and you seem hapyy both with them, and to continue to let the property, why rock the boat further?

* Serve a S21? It is invalid.
* Refund the deposit & then serve S21? You highlight to the tenants the deposit issue, and they might sue.
* Refund the deposit, serve S21 and then evict? You lose rent, have a void, have the expense of finding new tenant......

Seems to me the tenants might be hoping to buy somewhere. Buying is slow and uncertain. Maybe they got gazumped. Sp are having trouble timing their Notice and house buying. Maybe their purchase (if I'm right) will never happen. They might stay another 12 months plus.

Instead of being irritated by the withdrawal of notice, have sympathy for their uncertainty and difficulty.....?

merrychristmas2013

G_M wrote: »

Seems to me the tenants might be hoping to buy somewhere. Buying is slow and uncertain. Maybe they got gazumped. Sp are having trouble timing their Notice and house buying. Maybe their purchase (if I'm right) will never happen. They might stay another 12 months plus.

Instead of being irritated by the withdrawal of notice, have sympathy for their uncertainty and difficulty.....?

I think they have to go back home (other country) so don't think they would be buying.

I do agree but the last time they said they want to go, they told me 2 weeks before the day they wanted to leave. Which I read somewhere they are meant to give a months notice. I didn't want to argue about it because I mean if I say oh sorry you have to give a months notice before you go, what really would happen apart from not paying or just leaving lol as I say i'm a bit worried they are just going to leave without telling me.

Also the other thing is the deposit, i'd rather that just sorted, so if they went and took me to court it's done rather than waiting around for another 2 years waiting. If I had new tenants in there I would definitely do it all properly this time.

I am just weighing the options up to be honest, as I say hopefully it will get sorted when I go see them and speak to them

G_M

merrychristmas2013 wrote: »

......Which I read somewhere they are meant to give a months notice.....

Also the other thing is the deposit, i'd rather that just sorted, so if they went and took me to court it's done rather than waiting around for another 2 years waiting.

Re notice, read:

Ending/Renewing an AST (what happens when the Fixed Term ends?)(What is a Periodic Tenancy?)(How can a LL remove a tenant?)(How can a tenant end a tenancy?)

The risk in enforcing their Notice period is that they retaliate over the unregistered deposit.

As I said, the only way to fully resolve the deposit issue is to return it- which leaves you vulnerable to rent arrears/damage.

But if, as you say, they are 'returning abroad' they may be less likely to
a) be around for you to sue for arrears/damage
b) be around for them to sue you for non-registration

I would hang on to the deposit, not serve a S21, and if/when they leave, be flexible over notice period - just use the deposit for damage if any.

After all, you've had 2 good years of trouble-free income....

jamie11

Have the tenants ever served you with a notice in writing?

If they have and you accepted it then they can't take it back. It's irrevocable.

Overstaying that notice could entitle you to charge them double rent under the 'Distress for rent act 1737' (look it up). You probably would not want to go down that road, but it's a good point if you want them to actually leave at the end of their notice.

If you want to give them notice then follow G_M's advice, either way you're going to have to pay the full deposit back to them at some point. Learn the lesson for your next tenant.

Guest101

If the tenants did sue you, you would have the same recourse against the agent

ihatemyhouse

its the LL job to put the bond in a scheme, not agent, so if they sue you, its will be an expensive lesson learned for next time

unless they give it in writing then don't accept it, when they give it in writing and don't move, take to court to get out, use section 8

I_have_spoken

Late registration puts you in slightly better positions than no registration.

I assume the tenants were sent the 'Prescribed Information' 3 months into the tenancy? If so, and they didn't raise any issue, you could infer acceptance.

If you did serve a S.21 and you had to apply to a court for eviction, you could be lucky and find a judge who applied their discretion to grant eviction as the deposit has been in a bond for 20+ months & you were showing 'good faith'.

You also make a case that the transition from AST to periodic at 12 months effectively created a new contract, at which time the deposit was bonded.

Guest101

I_have_spoken wrote: »

Late registration puts you in slightly better positions than no registration.

I assume the tenants were sent the 'Prescribed Information' 3 months into the tenancy? If so, and they didn't raise any issue, you could infer acceptance.

If you did serve a S.21 and you had to apply to a court for eviction, you could be lucky and find a judge who applied their discretion to grant eviction as the deposit has been in a bond for 20+ months & you were showing 'good faith'.

You also make a case that the transition from AST to periodic at 12 months effectively created a new contract, at which time the deposit was bonded.

No it would not infer 'acceptance' the ll has not complied with the law, regardless of whether the deposit us now protected or not . If a new tenancy is formed then the ll would have failed twice to provide the information within 30 days!

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