Norwich Traffic Control - advice please

marcoslupo

Hi..
Have cruised numerous threads and there is an amazing depth of knowledge and advice here - I've read loads of really helpful stuff already (Newbies guide etc.).....alas I've not found any guidance that I can apply to my position......yet! So, time to start a new thread for myself I think and apologies in advance if this has already been covered (numerous times).

Unsure whether I should bury my head in the ground on this one or put some effort in to appealing. My main question is around the timings of the Unpaid Parking Charge Notice. I'm aware that they need to contact me between 28 and 56 days but I received the PCN from Roxburghe (yawn) on the 57th day (although the letter sent by them was dated earlier). So my question is.....are they within their 56 day limit or not (taking into account the day I received the letter and the day they claim that they sent it).
Here are some details in the hope one of you clever boys or girls can offer a little bit of help.

• Name of private PCN company: Norwich Traffic Control
• It was a stuck on windscreen ticket
• Date of Ticket: 26/10/2013
• Received Unpaid PCN letter from Roxburghe on 21/12/2013 (although they placed a date of Dec 17th on the letter), demanding £160 (original charge was £60 <14days or £100 <28 days)
• I live in England

Shall I ride this out just for fun, pay it or go down an appeal route?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Best regards.

Coupon-mad

Appeal it as registered keeper. Do not imply who the driver was at all, do not refer to the windscreen ticket at all.

No they are not within the 56 days as it has to be served (received) by day 56. But is the original ticket even one which alleges the POFA 2012 applies? Does the letter from Roxburghe mention POFA 2012 and registered keeper liability?

Some don't go down that route and can only pursue the driver if so.

Both types of ticket can be taken to POPLA.

4consumerrights

Shall I ride this out just for fun, pay it or go down an appeal route?
Thanks in advance for any help.

Up to you if you ride this out for fun or appeal.

Roxburghe do send non-compliant NtK acting on behalf of smaller parking companies under the trading name of PCN Parking Services.

They also act as debt collectors for other parking companies.

So assuming the first is the case here - definitely appeal.

Roxburghe are still under investigation by the OFT - their rewewal licence was due in April and there is still an open pending decision to revoke:

http://www2.crw.gov.uk/pr/default.aspx

Norwich Traffic Control still claim to be able remove vehicles and do security work with a SIA licence - which they don't have.

http://norwichtrafficcontrol.com

SIA REGISTER:
http://www.sia.homeoffice.gov.uk/Pages/acs-roac.aspx?all

The current company Norwich Traffic Control was registered in May this year and the director has not even tried to hide the fact that this is the second company under this name - dissolving the first with debt.

http://companycheck.co.uk/director/914828002

Under companies Act a director is not allowed to start another company with the same name for 12 months after the first company dissolves.

marcoslupo

Coupon-mad wrote: »

No they are not within the 56 days as it has to be served (received) by day 56. But is the original ticket even one which alleges the POFA 2012 applies? Does the letter from Roxburghe mention POFA 2012 and registered keeper liability?

Both types of ticket can be taken to POPLA.

Wow, thanks for those speedy responses. Amazing.

Your reference to POFA 2012.....I can see that ref on letter from Roxburghe, but not on ticket.

So......(and acknowledge your points re: RK and Windscreen ticket)
Should I appeal to NTC in the first instance (basing my letter on a template from this forum) even though it's outside of the '28 days'?
And then wait for the POPLA code (if appeal is rejected) and then submit appeal to POPLA as to why it's an invalid invoice (i.e. not within 56 days)?

Again, many thanks.

Coupon-mad

I would appeal to both Roxburghe and NTC along these lines (remember as keeper you don't talk about the parking nor the windscreen ticket - you don't need to!):





Dear Steve Dargonne (Roxburghe) and Norwich Traffic Control Limited,

Ref xxxxxxxxxx
I am the registered keeper of vehicle registration xxxxxxx and I have just received a letter from Mr Dargonne at Roxburghe which arrived on 21st December. As it mentions a private parking 'ticket' (invoice) dated 26th October from 'NTC Ltd' I am sending my appeal, as registered keeper, to both firms.

This is my appeal:

- if this 'Unpaid Parking Charge Notice' is purporting to be a Notice to Keeper under POFA 2012 then, as you must be aware already, it has failed. This Notice does not meet the criteria required under POFA 2012 to establish keeper liability. Back to the drawing board, Mr Dargonne, I feel you would be 'wize'* not to waste more Energy on this matter. The letter arrived outside of the maximum 56 days after the alleged parking event and the wording is wholly non-compliant when compared to paragraph 8 of Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012.

- the letter suggests that you are attempting to extort from me, the registered keeper, £160. This is the first letter you have sent to me as keeper and is particularly surprising, bearing in mind that the BPA Ltd confirmed a few months ago that 'all AOS members are now adhering to the £100 maximum parking charge'. As you both purport to be AOS members, I shall be alerting the BPA Ltd to your joint collusion in trying to increase a charge well above the CoP maximum, before a keeper has even been informed of the charge and allowed their chance to appeal.

- NTC Ltd do not own the car park and I challenge NTC Ltd to show that the signage was adequate and clear, since drivers of my car do not deliberately breach terms.

- The BPA Code of Practice section 22.14 states 'drivers and keepers may appeal against a parking charge to POPLA'. So I would appreciate my POPLA code by return.

Clearly I am not liable as registered keeper in a case where the driver has not been established. However, in addition I will state in my POPLA appeal that the charge - whether it be £160 or whatever figure you pluck out of the air next - is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss. And as you do not own this car park, NTC Ltd do not have the legal standing or assignment of title to grant them any rights to pursue this charge.

I invite you to cancel the charge if you don't fancy funding my POPLA appeal after all. Anything other than a POPLA code or cancellation will be reported to the BPA Ltd and to Mr Dunford at the DVLA immediately. Do not insult my intelligence by pretending that I have to name the driver. I have appealed, as is my right.

Compliments of the Season,


THE REG KEEPER'S NAME








* you can remove this line if you like but it's added in as a small dig about Steve Dargonne's failed business 'EnergyWize' of Worthing:

http://bankrupt.com/TCREUR_Public/050923.mbx (control+F to find 'Dargonne' as a keyword)

http://www.construction.co.uk/company_1008.htm

marcoslupo

Goodness me Coupon. That is utterly astounding. I really wasn't expecting nor asking you to do that, but please be assured it is 100% appreciated.
Appealing is now actually turning out to be more fun than ignoring these flaccid members of society!

Merry Christmas.....I promise to get you a drink next time I see you at the bar. ;-)
ATB.

4consumerrights

marcoslupo wrote: »

Goodness me Coupon. That is utterly astounding. I really wasn't expecting nor asking you to do that, but please be assured it is 100% appreciated.
Appealing is now actually turning out to be more fun than ignoring these flaccid members of society!

Merry Christmas.....I promise to get you a drink next time I see you at the bar. ;-)
ATB.

Coupon is the most respected contributor on this forum and will always go the extra mile to write letters when she can.

However if everyone she wrote a letter for bought her a drink - she would be very drunk indeed.:D

android26

Street View shows a terraced house as the reg. address of NTC,
Also another business seems to be showing that address and their van parked on the drive. http://www.mandysmintconditioners.co.uk/

I trust they are paying business rates there.:whistle:

Coupon-mad

4consumerrights wrote: »

Coupon is the most respected contributor on this forum and will always go the extra mile to write letters when she can.

However if everyone she wrote a letter for bought her a drink - she would be very drunk indeed.:D

I do have fun writing sarky letters like the above.

The OP might not realise that I know of Steve Dargonne (as I too am from West Sussex and used to bank at 'his' Midland bank branch in Goring, back in the day). His attempts at 'Notice to Keeper' letters these days make me laugh! It wouldn't be rocket science to come up with a POFA-compliant version (it would take most of us an hour or so just by copy/pasting from Schedule 4, hardly difficult!).

And I will partake of a few drinks over the next few days like the rest of you, I'm sure. Thanks for the offer of a drink, marcoslupo, if ever you visit the Amex football ground in Brighton on a matchday you will find me there...and Steve Dargonne as well I believe, although I have never spotted him!

Merry Christmas all!

tommiep

Hi there,

I'm sorry to tag along in this post, but I have a similar question to do with Norwich Traffic Control and Rox.

I have 10 charges at £160 which I don't think I should have to pay.

I received them in private managed residential parking. I had 2 cars at the time and had to park the second one in the empty (never used) space next to me for a couple of weeks. During this time the car received 10 tickets.

They are now asking for £1600. I don't have the money to pay this, what should I do?

Thanks for any advise.

Coupon-mad

Start a new thread! Really, it is the answer. Welcome to MSE but...new thread please, all cases are different, we'd need dates/details about where you are in the process. See my signature (below, not the red words) for how to get to the front page of current threads on the forum, where you will see sticky advice notices at the top, read them first. Then start your own thread there - you are one click away at the moment.