Failed Atos Medical, will claimant still get Assessment rate?

bery_451

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Although there is no time limit for reconsiderations it is expected that they should take no more than 4 weeks.


However, the claimant should claim JSA as the money would be exactly the same as the assessment rate of ESA.


There has been a lot of discussion about this and Job Centre Plus should be aware that claimants in this position should be treated with due regard to their difficulties and their Job Seekers agreement should reflect this.


The upshot is that there is no alternative benefit to claim.

So if the claimant want to survive then the only benefit available to them is JSA?

However doesnt the claimant contradict him/herself by signing the JSA agreement saying he/she is fit for work while telling the DWP that they are unfit for work hence asking DWP to reconsider?

If claimant claims JSA then does existing ESA claim automatically closes and that means the claimant has to make a fresh claim to ESA if he/she want to claim ESA again in the future?

rogerblack

bery_451 wrote: »

However doesnt the claimant contradict him/herself by signing the JSA agreement saying he/she is fit for work while telling the DWP that they are unfit for work hence asking DWP to reconsider?

If claimant claims JSA then does existing ESA claim automatically closes and that means the claimant has to make a fresh claim to ESA if he/she want to claim ESA again in the future?

It is important to understand that the precise terms involved are not normal english terms, but specific technical terms.

See the above linked document by pmlindyloo for the answer to some of these questions.

In short. Once you are found fit, your ESA claim should automatically close, and you can then claim JSA online as normal. If this fails to work, you can apply with a phone call.

Once your ESA appeal begins - after the reconsideration period is over - ESA should resume without problems.

Crucial to understanding this is that ESA is _NOT_ granted because you cannot work.

It is granted because you meet one or more of the somewhat arbitrary criteria - which vary from having under 6 months to live, to being unable to reach into an upper jacket pocket.

Similarly - JSA does not require you to not meet the criteria for ESA.

Normally, it is in principle possible to claim JSA, even if so disabled that you would easily qualify for ESA.
The problems arise what happens when either the application is refused, or the person is sanctioned due to failing to comply with a jobseeking direction or some other matter.

To answer the topmost question - if the person cannot, or is not willing to claim JSA, and there is an extended reconsideration period (or if they are not paid because they have missed their medical) - there is no specific income related benefit payable.

The person might qualify for Income Support on other grounds - for example if they have a child under 5, or carers allowance if someone they care for is entitled to DLA/PIP. But you cannot make a new claim for IS on the grounds of disability/illness.

sja75

A bit of good news regards Mandatory Recon is that once this it is completed and an appeal is lodged, the claimant will receive 'back pay' for the MR period shortly thereafter. No waiting for Tribunal decision etc.

bery_451

sja75 wrote: »

A bit of good news regards Mandatory Recon is that once this it is completed and an appeal is lodged, the claimant will receive 'back pay' for the MR period shortly thereafter. No waiting for Tribunal decision etc.

Ok so it is confirmed that the claimant can backdate and claim the missed assessment rate during mandatory reconsideration period?

However to support this backdate claim does the claimant need to submit sick notes covering this period?

rogerblack

bery_451 wrote: »

Ok so it is confirmed that the claimant can backdate and claim the missed assessment rate during mandatory reconsideration period?

However to support this backdate claim does the claimant need to submit sick notes covering this period?

Usually, yes.
Perhaps in the case that the person has made a new claim, been refused, they may still have a current note, which may be used in this circumstance.
This should be allowable by law - what the DWP does with it is another question.

bery_451

rogerblack wrote: »

Usually, yes.
Perhaps in the case that the person has made a new claim, been refused, they may still have a current note, which may be used in this circumstance.
This should be allowable by law - what the DWP does with it is another question.

You mean it only applies to claimants that have their JSA applications refused?

What if the claimant decides not to claim JSA and decides to wait out the mandatory reconsideration period then backdate the assessment rate using sick notes covering the mandatory reconsideration period?

rogerblack

bery_451 wrote: »

You mean it only applies to claimants that have their JSA applications refused?

What if the claimant decides not to claim JSA and decides to wait out the mandatory reconsideration period then backdate the assessment rate using sick notes covering the mandatory reconsideration period?

No.
I mean that for the case of someone with an existing ESA claim that has it cancelled, they will never usually have a live medical note on the ESA system.

If these people want to be paid on appeal - they will have to submit medical notes.

Any JSA claim is irrelevant.

One thing to note - if ESA has stopped because you have missed, or are alleged to have missed a medical or not cooperated with the assessment process/medical - you will _not_ get paid at assessment rate. You will get backpay if you win at appeal for the normal ESA rate.

bery_451

I cant believe its turn such a big hassle now just to get the assessment rate.

If its that hard to get the assessment rate then getting the actual disability awarded benefit sounds impossible for a claimant with disability. Seen on TV that a soldier served in Iraq and had his limbs blown off and his in a wheelchair and everything yet ATOS still see him as fit to work.

Is it the Government to blame or the Paralympics games or both?

Yet you cant compare a paralympic athlete to a normal wheelchair disabled person. It is like saying If Usain Bolt can be the fatest man in the world then why cant the average joe be the fastest in the world.:p

If the average joe go around telling people that he can be the fastest in the world and be a gold medallist will people laugh at him or they will say its possible if you try?

rogerblack

bery_451 wrote: »

I cant believe its turn such a big hassle now just to get the assessment rate.

You seem to be mixing things up.

The assessment rate is easy to get.

A) Apply for ESA, and with relatively little information, and a very basic form, get ESA at assessment rate, requiring little more than a medical note.

After a dissalowance from ESA, go through the mandatory reconsideration process - and then you will be paid it during appeal. (Unless you've missed your medical, or you are clearly not eligible).

The hard part is qualifying for ESA main rate.

bery_451

anyone knows the pass rate of mandatory reconsiderations?