Change to housing Benefit

lukieboy96

I moved in October and filled in Housing Benefit form for new address, same council etc. I now do not pay bedroom tax now and get full housing Benefit. because change of circumstances housing benefit pay directly into my bank. Everytime it goes in I pay on line to housing.

I was shocked to get a letter from my housing association saying that I owed money and if I did not pay they would start seeking possession order!! Shocked was an understatement! When I contacted they said I have to be in credit by a month! I explained when rent gets paid and they didn't care! Apparently, when Universal Credit comes in they will expect everyone to be in credit! I explained I do not have the money to pay as I get full benefit.
Apparently, if rent paid direct to them it is different! As it was before. I said I did not to choose to have it paid in my account but that is what will happen now. Also, I said U C was not in yet. They will not even accept my letter of proof of housing benefit!

This is just to let people know. I think it is different depending on your housings policies.

Oh, and the other thing was that they had changed my address but did not transfer the credit on my old address! It was lucky I contacted housing benefit as they paid an amount on 13th Oct but Association had it in 'cyber space!!!!'

They said I could pay rent in the 2 rent free weeks! But I said my money will be the same!!

Will wait for the next letter. I am just very confused. I have been with this housing association for 17 years!!

BigAunty

You flagged up a similar anxiety in a recent post, namely not having to have sufficient funds in your account to pay the rent that your HA is expecting.

forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4844223

I recommend that you speak to Shelter asap about that possession notice.

Is your issue that the rent is charged monthly by the Housing Association and your payment of HB doesn't coincide with this so that you must have contigency there? Is any of the arrears caused by the lag between when you get HB in your account but then it takes a couple of days for you to transfer it to the landlord? Or have I got this wrong?

How much do you owe them? Or do you feel you owe them nothing because you've paid up to the end of December, for example, if your rent is due on the 1st? Have you asked for a breakdown of the alleged arrears. When is your rent due and when did you pay it and what period was this supposed to cover?

Have they given you anything in writing about the switch to UC?

What do you mean by saying your HA say that you have to be in 'credit in a month'? I can't speak for social housing landlords but private tenants, when they pay their rent on 1st December, they are paying Decembers rent at the start of the month, not paying rent in arrears by paying for November, that's quite normal whereas HB is received in arrears - its always been up to the tenant to manage the payment of rent by HB in arrears versus the payment of rent in advance with the landlord, the lag there.

It is fairly normal to pay rent in advance for the period ahead - is this what you mean by 'credit in a month' or did the social housing landlord use this term? But if you've paid for December's rent already, for example, are they asking to pay for January's too, just to ready yourself for UC? So you aren't just paying your rent for the month ahead (rent in advance) which can be a fairly normal state of affairs, they are actually wanting you to pay two lots of rent in advance? Please clarify.

I don't know that much about UC/HB changes but am aware that the direct payments of HB to tenants for the first time can be distressing if they've always had it paid directly to the landlord because they are not used to having responsibility for it. There's always a question of how introducing new payment cycles to those who are used to different payment periods because it requires budgeting skills.

I know you are saying that it's a struggle to have the full month's rent ready in your account due to some kind of lag with HB, if I understand you correctly. Perhaps a poster can recommend some kind of DWP loan you may qualify for to provide that cushion to the low balance of your account or suggest other ways to cope with it? Or give pointers on other policies that other HAs have to cope with the switchover to UC.

But a private tenant with a deadline to pay x rent on x date don't get any tolerance from their landlord, even if their employers pay them in a completely different cycle and date than when there rent is due. But perhaps that's not relevant to your argument if you are saying that you don't owe your landlord any money and you can't pay two month's worth of rent in one go.

BigAunty

Do you receive HB fortnightly or 4 weekly? Does your rent get charged 4 weekly or monthly - what is the rental period? If UC is not yet in your area, when is it due?

Another thing you could do is contact your local MP to inform you that your local housing association is prepared to make you homeless because they are demanding a sum of rent in advance that you cannot provide them with from your benefits.

I'm not sure if this is any help but here is why the govt say they now pay HB to social housing tenants under UC. It looks like they are testing how tenants can manage monthly payments of housing costs ahead of the introduction of Universal Credit.

"We believe that Universal Credit payments should replicate as far as possible how people are paid when they are in work. We want to see very many more people handle their own benefit and rent payments. Housing costs within Universal Credit will be paid directly to individuals in the social rented sector, rather than the current system of payments direct to landlords. This will encourage people to manage their own budget in the same way as other households."

https://www.gov.uk/government/policies/simplifying-the-welfare-system-and-making-sure-work-pays/supporting-pages/making-sure-housing-support-is-fair-and-affordable

From another article

"The monthly payment of Universal Credit into a bank account is designed to mimic the paid work experience. It assumes that claimants will be suitably banked by the date of their claim and that they have the financial capability for monthly budgeting. These assumptions are contrary to learned patterns of behaviour from the current welfare system where, for a generation, benefits have been paid weekly or fortnightly. In addition, it is variously reported that as many as 4-14% of the population have no bank account, preferring to operate in the cash economy.

Clearly there is an equivalent disconnect for tenants in receipt of full Housing Benefit who have been alienated from a payment culture, and who will consequently require information, advice and often direct assistance in this cultural shift.The extent of the disconnection is expressed in a phrase landlords may be all too familiar with - ‘I don’t pay rent’."

lukieboy96

I am just confused as I have never had this problem. Housing Benefit paid one weeks rent and then changed to 2 weekly. So every two weeks it goes into my bank and as soon as it is in I pay to housing on line.Everything was fine before I moved. The only change was I no longer pay bedroom tax, so all rent paid by benefit as it was before bedroom tax came into force.

Will read through tomorrow as tired.

BigAunty

You previously wrote this "As soon as it is in my account I pay it on the internet. Housing have said I need to be a month in credit even though housing pay me 2 weekly.

I am just going to pay a little extra each week. the letter freaked me out as it said if I have not cleared arrears in 14 days they would issue a note of Intention to Seek Possession!"

Did you contact your social housing landlord to discuss your proposed arrears payment strategy or did you just pay what you felt you could afford without seeking their permission? Because it sounds like they then proceeded to issue with the notice so I wonder if you communicated with them again or just thought you'd call their bluff?

Is this really anything to do with UC, though? If your rental period is monthly then you must pay the month's worth of rent. Rent is due when it is due, according to the tenancy contract, and if you do not pay the full sum when the rent is contractually due, you are automatically in arrears. Yes, the arrears may be caused by receiving benefit income at different times than when the rent is due but its the responsibility of the tenant to budget so that they meet their contractual obligation.

What does your tenancy agreement say? Come back and post what your tenancy agreement says - it'll say something like '£x is due on x date'. So how much did you pay when it was last due?

By the sounds of it, I wonder if each time your monthly (or perhaps 4 weekly) rent is due, you appear to be happy that you've transferred part of the rent you owe when you receive your HB and think your job is done because you've done this as quickly as you've received the HB. This isn't going to please your landlord as you are sleepwalking into arrears if you think your only responsibility is to pay towards the rent when your HB is due and not actually pay the full rent on time. It just seems to me that you focus on forwarding your HB to them when you get it rather than paying the rent in full and by the exact date it is due and since they don't coincide, you see this as a benefit or landlord problem, rather than not fulfilling your tenancy agreement.

But I do wonder whether your rental periods and HB income receipt are out of synch and you think this is something that your landlord just has to lump and that's not how a tenancy agreement is supposed to operate? You do focus on how you forward each and every HB payment that you receive (HB is generally paid in arrears) but I don't believe that you have confirmed the rental period (and rent is generally paid in advance).

Perhaps I've misunderstood, though, and perhaps you have paid the full rental period in advance and your landlord is asking for more and this is simply out of reach? In which case I apologise.

You cite UC as a factor but currently I don't quite understand why this is the cause unless they are demanding an extra sum of credit to the account that isn't justified by the tenancy agreement? Meaning you aren't actually in arrears but aren't in high enough credit.

However, there is a Housing Benefit Officer on this forum and so perhaps they can shed some light on it?

lukieboy96

I am charged rent weekly, we have 2 weeks free at Christmas and 2 in April. If you choose to pay monthly they times your rent by 48 and then divide by twelve to get your monthly payment, this is what they did with bedroom tax, but I am not paying monthly.
I have asked them to send me my statements from old address and new address and I can figure it out. Or try to.

Oh, also, the finance said 'well we don't know you're getting housing benefit, as now paid to me' I said I could provide them with a copy of the letter as proof, but they didn't want to know!

lukieboy96

The reason I mention UC is because that is what my council have said, that from April it will be paid directly to the person not association, and with any change of circumstances it would start before then.So yes, UC is the reason for the benefit being paid to me. If UC was not coming council would have continued paying it direct to Association and I would not have this stress.

It is all confusing. I have always been able to budget but there is no way I can pay an extra £400!

I have serious mental health problems and part of the condition causes me to become paranoid and anxious. I spoke to my CPN who has said she will help me if necessary.

Sorry I can't explain things better!

lukieboy96

Just found letter I was sent and it does say 'weekly' rent. So I do not know why she said monthly on the phone. This should be resolved by the credit being passed from old address to new!

Note to self..... Read letter a couple of times and try to not get worked up. Not easy for me.

Thank you for the replies.

BigAunty

lukieboy96 wrote: »

Oh, also, the finance said 'well we don't know you're getting housing benefit, as now paid to me' I said I could provide them with a copy of the letter as proof, but they didn't want to know!

The origin of your income is irrelevant, a tenant must pay £x sum of rent on x date it is due, whether from their savings, employment income or benefits.

Your HB is your benefit, it's between you and the council. Your tenancy is your tenancy, it's between you and the social housing landlord. The council and the social housing landlord do not have a relationship with each other. It is up to you to liaise independently with them.

What if the social housing landlord did accept your offer to see proof of your HB - how is this supposed to do anything to address the arrears you have, that are up to you to actively sort out? The social housing landlord cannot sort out HB issues for you, it's in your name and its up to you to sort out your HB with the council, not them, though I appreciate you had many years experience when they had a closer relationship so this is a really stressful step for you and a big change in behaviour.

I refer you to the earlier comments about why HB is now paid to social housing tenants, namely to tackle the mentality that the rent is nothing to do with them, that the govt and social housing landlords are extremely critical of tenants assumptions that rent and HB is something between the council and the social housing landlord to sort out.

The govt want social housing tenants to take full responsibility for paying the rent in full themselves in future, (like a private tenant would do as they have received their HB directly for years, or an employed social housing tenant would do with their employment income) instead of expecting the council and landlord to take communicate with each other. They do not want the passivity to continue whereby a tenant on HB doesn't see that the terms of the tenancy have anything to do with them.

Do not ignore letters about arrears and repossession, fantasising the issues will go away or craving a return to the past where 'I don't pay my rent, the social do' because the govt is being serious that they want a wholesale change of culture that make tenants more active in meeting the terms of their tenancy and taking away a lot of the handholding.

You will find Shelter offers free expert advice. Consider making a formal complaint to your social housing landlord if you don't feel they are treating you as you should. Do bring it to your MPs attention if you want them to understand the stress that this change to direct payments is causing you.

You mention your CPN. Do get them involved in this (or contact Citizens Advice) to see if there is assistance provided to the vulnerable as I would think they would make direct payments to the landlord in some circumstances (I don't know but this is something you can check).

Do your social housing landlord know you have mental health issues? Ask your landlord or council (or get your CPN) to ask what the grounds are for tenants to have direct payments between council and landlord re-established. They maybe extremely reluctant to do this and have quite strict grounds for it.

By the sounds of it, that missing credit you spoke of may resolve things? Hope it does. Keep us posted if you hit any more issues. At least your post has flagged up early the future problems that many social housing tenants will have when they are switched onto direct HB payments under the move to UC and might help others.

lukieboy96

I think it is going to cause a lot of problems, when it is rolled out in full.

The only reason I got frustrated is because I couldn't understand it and still confused to be honest. But hopefully, once old address credit is added it will even things out because it will also have my last payment from the bedroom tax.

seven-day-weekend

If your rent is due on (say) December 1st, you have to pay it on that date, in full, whether or not your Housing Benefit has been paid. If you pay your rent on that date it is December's rent , not November's, although the HB might be to cover November's. Maybe that is what they mean by saying you need to be a month in advance. Pay your rent in advance, get HB in arrears, so therefore you will be a month in advance.