Parking charge notice is GPEOL likely to be case for appeal?

bigtoe99

Hi,
Received a Parking Charge Notice from a private parking company (LCP) in the post with pictures of car numberplate and timings of entering and leaving the car park. The offence was quoted as non-payment. The time between the alleged offence and the letter arriving is no more than the 14 days within which the company has to issue the charge notice. So there are no grounds for appeal there.

The car was parked in a retail car park with several high street chain shops, supermarket etc. Purchases were made during the stay of less than one hour. There were no signs observed on entering the car park or from where the car was parked or while walking towards the shops that said parking should be paid for. However it is of course conceivable that there were signs somewhere in the car park or that they were missed.

It is not possible to go back to the car park and check whether there are signs and how visible they are.

Having read several forums, it seems that it would be possible to appeal on the grounds that the charge is not a genuine pre estimate of the loss. The query is whether this is likely to be allowed by POPLA in this case?

The notice says
"failure to comply with the advertised terms and conditions within x car park"

Trying to decide whether to pay a reduced charge within the 14 day notice period or appeal.

Any help very much appreciated

Stroma

All claims are allowed at popla with the defence not a genuine pre-estimate of loss, parking eye for example has lost 6 today from the popla results thread. Almost all tickets are issued on terms and conditions of parking and not trespass so will win on that

Coupon-mad

Yes, you have hit the nail on the head, you will almost certainly win your POPLA appeal in 2014 on that point if it's this bunch:

http://www.londoncarparks.co.uk/

However we don't suggest just one point of challenge - and at the first appeal stage you are best to spoon-feed the PPC with a few more obvious appeal points such as:

'There were no signs observed on entering the car park or from where the car was parked, or while the driver was walking towards the shops, that there was a pay & display scheme in operation so I conclude your signs are not clear and no contract was formed with the driver. I am challenging this as the registered keeper and expect cancellation or a POPLA code as your response.'

Stroma wrote: »

All claims are allowed at popla with the defence not a genuine pre-estimate of loss,

Except cases such as Combined Parking Solutions (for example) where their signs allege the person has agreed to pay £100 to park, or some such drivel.

bigtoe99

Thanks for quick reply

So you would recommend appealing? You think I have a good chance of winning?

If I pay reduced fee it will be £50 less than if I lose the appeal

Coupon-mad

We win 100% of POPLA appeals on all cases helped since Easter. That's compelling!

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Don't even think of paying

bigtoe99

Thanks so much for advice. I have drafted a letter to send to the PPC based on what I have picked up from the MSE forums. Please let me know if you suggest any improvements.

Should I add that I was shopping and can provide receipts/ bank statements to prove it? The advice on this seems to be mixed from what I have read i.e. sometimes does not work in your favour.

"As registered keeper I wish to appeal against this Parking Charge Notice on the following grounds:
1) Please supply a copy of the relevant sections of the contract that you are working stating that (a) the contract is, in fact, with the landowner and (b) the limit of your authority to levy charges as some landowner contracts do not, in fact, grant that authority. If you are unwilling to provide this information, then I require, in accordance with the BPA and POFA regulations, a POPLA code in order for me to take this appeal to POPLA.

2) The signage informing motorists of the terms and conditions at x car park does not meet the requirements of the BPA Code of Practice. The driver did not observe any signage on entering the car park or from the position where the car was parked or during walking from the car to the shops so I conclude your signs are not clear and no contract was formed with the driver..



3) The charge is punitive and unenforceable. The parking charge amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.


This challenge is based on the assertion that your parking charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss to yourself or the landowner. In every case where a motorist has raised this issue, POPLA have accepted the appeal. You are therefore fully aware that there is no prospect of your charge being upheld. If you do reject the challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my expenses from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses, legal fees, etc. By continuing to pursue this parking charge notice you agree to pay these costs when I prevail."

SevenTowers

bigtoe99 wrote: »

Thanks for quick reply

So you would recommend appealing? You think I have a good chance of winning?

If I pay reduced fee it will be £50 less than if I lose the appeal

If you follow the POPLA guidelines here, you have 100% chance of winning.

Don't worry about the supposed reduced payment offer, that's just another part of the scam to pressurise you into handing them money, the amount you'll be paying is £0.00.

Redx

Should I add that I was shopping and can provide receipts/ bank statements to prove it? The advice on this seems to be mixed from what I have read i.e. sometimes does not work in your favour.

I would definitely send scans of the receipts as it shows you were a legitimate shopper on the site, I also believe it would help your case if it ever went to court too, but as most cases are won on the no gpeol or no contract to charge etc then its most likely not going to be considered , but proof is proof and it would certainly go in my appeal if I were doing it, but it would be in addition to the ones already in there and may only sway them to the main silver bullets (sympathise in your favour which can only help matters)

good luck

bigtoe99

Hi,
I appealed to the PPC as above and have received a response refusing the appeal.
They have provided a breakdown of costs from the breach which ARE specific to this case and add up to £97 - the fine was £100.
The costs are as follows:
dvla look up
postage
original cost of parking
labour cost for processing the notice and initial appeals
POPLA registration fee
Admin cost for POPLA appeal

It is my understanding that most appeals win at POPLA based on GPEOL because the companies list costs such as running and maintaining equipment ie not specific to the individual case. All these costs are specific to this case. I'd be very interested to know if anyone has had similar responses and won at POPLA?

I think the signage was inadequate but I'm not sure whether this is something that would win at POPLA.

In response to the point about whether they have the right to levy the charge, they have sent an HM Land Registry document which states that they are the leaseholders of the land - I'm not sure whether this is the same as being the landowner. I could scan and attach the document if anyone thinks they can help with this?

I have the option to pay £30 to settle the matter.

Would be very grateful for any thoughts

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Could you scan up the letters they sent please?, not seen a parking company try and include popla cost before,

They cant include this because how do they know when someone gets a ticket they are going to appeal to popla at the time of the breach, You have to put accross in your popla appeal that loss must flow from the breach itself, not future costs which may or may not happen

I wonder if given their "previous coaching", we will see more cases like this where they try and make it specific to the parking event

Just post up the link without the www then will post it up for you