PCN NW (ltd).

xAngelx_2

Hi all,

First of all, I have read a lot and have been reading all afternoon - however I am confused and it's messing with my head. So I thought I would write a thread for myself and get some advice.

Please remember I have no legal background and little understanding of this. All threads I have read today have been filled with confusing legal jargon and millions of acronyms.

I am now adding the fact that we have had court papers issued from Southampton, and have replied to these with the request to appeal the charge - since then there have only been solicitor's letters, no more official court letters, however we have not been given the information on how to appeal.

Okay, so:

In December 2012 (yes, more than A YEAR ago) I received a PCN for parking outside of a designated bay in the St Helens College car park, outside of college hours. It was £100 reduced to £50 if paid within the first 14 days.

It is a FREE car park, I don't know if that makes any difference.

In fairness, I was parked outside of the bay. It was busy at the cinema (who uses the car park in the evening) and there was nowhere else to park. It wasn't dangerous, however.

I have the following issues with the situation.

1) I received the initial fine, and made it clear I wasn't paying. Since then, every few weeks I have received another letter with ever increasing amounts informing me that I should pay ASAP. I have made it clear that this will not happen and that I wish to appeal.

2) There is been NO mention of a POPLA code, which according to the BPA guidelines I should have been provided with as soon as I said I wanted to appeal.

3) The "papers" sent by the company looked ridiculously fake - they didn't even sit straight on the paper, and were clearly a default letter that was sent to everybody.

4) I believe there has been issues relating to the legal ability of PCN (NW) ltd to charge at all, as they have not had permission to do so from the land owner. I'm not sure whether this is true - can anybody confirm (with evidence that I could quote)?

5) I do not believe the £100 quoted to be a reasonable charge. The car park is free, and all staff/signage/maintenance would have to be paid regardless of where I parked my car, as no damage was caused.

6) We received a letter when the solicitors changed to Gladstones saying that we had to get in touch within 28 days. We did, and they then had to get back in touch within another 28 days with their response. They got back in touch after around 36 days (according to the date on the letter) so they did NOT stay within the limits. Does this affect anything?

7) The latest letter includes photos of a) my car and b) the signs which "can clearly be seen from my vehicle" although they are copies of the sign, not photographs from the actual car park in question. Gladstones "urge me to pay as soon as possible" but there is STILL no mention of a POPLA number?? I believe this is a requirement once I have said that I don't wish to pay??

8) Also just remembered that they're NOT allowed to use the words "fine" or "penalty" on the letters? They definitely have.

Ultimately, after more than a year, I am fed up of it. I have already said that I would rather go to court than talk about it anymore - yet they keep sending letters which are intimidating and stressful. I will be mentioning this in my defence should it come to it, as I always made it clear what my intentions were.

It doesn't seem as though they actually have any intention of going to court - you'd have thought they'd have done it months ago. Then there's the question of the legality of the "fine" and the correspondence and time keeping from Gladstones.

Any advice would be helpful here. Thank you in advance.

Redx

can I ask you to read the sticky thread NEWBIES-READ THIS FIRST whilst waiting for better advice

also check the parts that are relevant to going to court, like the LBA and LBCCC sticky threads too (so read a few of them that are relevant)

also use the search forum tool top right in the drop down bar and search for similar threads as this car park has cropped up a few times and there may be help in there too

due to the time differential, I would expect you need to ignore all letters until they send an LBA or LBCCC but wait for better advice on that side of it, especially as it seems the paperwork may be invalid

you lost the right to POPLA a long time ago btw

bod1467

You're way past POPLA now. UNLESS .... was this ANPR (camera-based ticketing)? No ticket affixed to the vehicle (or implied that there was one)?

If ANPR then you may be able to identify "the driver" (your husband/partner for example - it doesn't really matter as you would continue to deal with it in their name, as long as you haven't already admitted to being the driver) and so discharge any registered keeper liability. Then "the driver" would be able to appeal to the PPC and then to POPLA and get this killed off.

OR ... just continue to ignore, and that means IGNORE - do NOT communicate with them - AT ALL.

xAngelx_2

Redx wrote: »

you lost the right to POPLA a long time ago btw

Why? Why would we lose the right when we said we wanted to appeal? Surely, as the "in the know" solicitor, they should have known the correct process when it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that, as a lay person, we wouldn't know what we were dealing with.

In answer to the below, no it wasn't ANPR, it was a windscreen ticket.

Not sure how I feel about ignoring - I made a thread 12 months ago and got about 6 pages of people saying ignore ignore ignore ignore, well it's not that simple anymore, it's getting scary, and I feel like crying.

Redx

xAngelx wrote: »

Why? Why would we lose the right when we said we wanted to appeal? Surely, as the "in the know" solicitor, they should have known the correct process when it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that, as a lay person, we wouldn't know what we were dealing with.

In answer to the below, no it wasn't ANPR, it was a windscreen ticket.

Not sure how I feel about ignoring - I made a thread 12 months ago and got about 6 pages of people saying ignore ignore ignore ignore, well it's not that simple anymore, it's getting scary, and I feel like crying.

no need to get upset just yet

if you made an appeal to the PPC, what date was this ? do you still have copies ? , can you post it here but redact your personal identifying info ? can you copy and paste their reply removing any personal info apart from dates etc ?

did they give you a popla code all that time ago ?

if they did then you had 28 days to send it in to popla in order to appeal, if they denied you your code then you should complain to the bpa direct by email for investigation

the advice has changed around easter this year, but as you have all the info and we dont you need to provide more of it if you require further help from here, we cannot help without knowing all the facts and as yet you havent told us enough in order to see what can be done, if anything

ie:- did they deny you the popla code ? (if so they broke the bpa guidelines)

if you did manage to get a new popla code we can help you beat them at popla, hence the need for that all important code

you seem to be a newbie here so your old thread must be under a different name, please find it and link it for us

bod1467

Can you point us to your original thread? (It must have been under a different forum name - or was it at a different forum?)

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (which provides a means for PPCs to pursue registered keepers rather than only the driver) came into force October 1st 2012. It looks like your tickets were in that period shortly thereafter when people didn't really understand POFA and POPLA, and so the old Ignore advice was still suggested.

So your choices are:

1. Work at this, provide all the details like Red asks, and we'll try to help you; OR

2. Continue to ignore, and ignore absolutely (don't speak to them, don't write to them), until and unless you receive court papers or a Letter Before Action/Letter Before County Court Claim/Notice of Intent To Pursue Court Action in X Days. Whereupon you come back here and we help you with a defence.

There is no middle ground - sorry. And nobody here will do the work for you.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Right you dont seem to 100& sure on things.
Unless you have requested to the court to direct this case to mediation and that they instructed the claim is stayed AND directed to ADR (Popla) then please stop wasting your time in thinking about a Popla code,

Send me please what court papers you have received, letters from gladstones and your proposed defence to princekiera@gmail.com

Send these all unredacted and i will help you off forum

Redx

kirkbyinfurnesslad wrote: »

Right you dont seem to 100& sure on things.
Unless you have requested to the court to direct this case to mediation and that they instructed the claim is stayed AND directed to ADR (Popla) then please stop wasting your time in thinking about a Popla code,

Send me please what court papers you have received, letters from gladstones and your proposed defence to [EMAIL="princekiera@gmail.com"]princekiera@gmail.com[/EMAIL]

Send these all unredacted and i will help you off forum

looks like they added that info since the original replies, so the OP needs to deal with this as an LBA or LBCCC and do as the last post asks etc

ie

I am now adding the fact that we have had court papers issued from Southampton, and have replied to these with the request to appeal the charge - since then there have only been solicitor's letters, no more official court letters, however we have not been given the information on how to appeal.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

Yes,

Hence why ive asked for court papers they have received etc and letters from gladstones.....

Will take this off forum if the OP sends me whats requested

Umkomaas

@xAngelx. Kirbyinfurnesslad is a highly trusted forum member and you can safely correspond with him off-forum as per his kind offer.

Be wary about any PMs you get from forum members with a very low post count offering help, PPCs are known to 'offer help' to unsuspecting newbies, but you're in safe hands with KIFL (above).

bod1467

I echo that. (Just so Angel knows this recommendation comes from more than one person). KIFL has helped others off the forum, even to the extent of helping them at court itself, if I recall right.