CPMS NTK out of date?

mike213

I posted in a thread about the same carpark but was advised to make my own thread.

I got the ticket on the window in the same car park (Manchester Science Park) in the beginning of october, I just got the letter through the post now demanding payment from CPMS recovery Ticket was on the 8/10, and letter was posted on 12/12 which is over 60 days, On the back is the threat of use of a debt collection agency. CPMS are BPA registered but not of their website is dead.

I am a bit confused about what I have seen mentioned that they have to send the letter within 56 days, but looking on POFA it does not mention anything about 56 days being an upper limit, can someone link me to where that information is written.

Mostly concerned about the threat of debt collectors as my dad is the registered owner of the car so the letter was addressed to him, and he has gotten very worried and was wanting to pay the fine himself.

Advice would be appreciated, I can scan the letter and the ticket if that would help

bod1467

Schedule 4, section 8, sub-paragraph 5 ...

(5) The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 28 days following the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to driver was given.

The equates to 29-56 days after the Notice to Driver (windscreen ticket).

So yes, it was out of time and so keeper liability doesn't technically apply.

However he can easily make it go away (for himself) by naming you as the driver and so discharge his liability anyway. But this doesn't help you ... the PPC would then know who the driver was and could pursue YOU through the courts. (YOU don't have the POPLA avenue as you missed the boat - a NtD was issued and that was YOUR opportunity).

All is not lost though. You could help your Dad with an appeal and then a POPLA appeal and make this all go away. The out of time NtK would be one of the appeal points, along with Not a GPEoL and No Authority (see the thread referenced in my sig below). YOUR DAD DOES NOT NEED TO PAY THIS! If you take this route (you should) make sure everything is written as The Keeper and The Driver ... DO NOT mention or imply who was the driver.

martmonk

Mike, thanks for starting your own thread.

I still haven't counted the days but assume you are correct, in which case the registered keeper has no liability, only the driver. As they don't know who the driver was, and the RK isn't going to be telling them then there is nothing they can do.

Your dad may get further letters but to stop them he (you on his behalf) could write to them stating that they are out of time for pursuing the RK as set out by PoFA and therefore cease and desist from contact.

bod1467

8/10 to 12/12 is 60 or 61 days (depending on whether you count 8/10 or 9/10 as day 1).

Do as said above ... OR take the appeal/POPLA route and get this killed off.

mike213

bod1467 wrote: »

8/10 to 12/12 is 60 or 61 days (depending on whether you count 8/10 or 9/10 as day 1).

Do as said above ... OR take the appeal/POPLA route and get this killed off.

I like the sound of sending them a letter saying they took too long to send the NTD. What would be the best way to phrase it. Would a letter to them also be the place to include no GPEoL and the no authority you mentioned (though that last point I am not too sure on could you clarify that please). Or do those 2 things only really make sense if I took the POPLA route. (Or would the letter itself classify as an appeal and if they continue post that do the POPLA)

Surely if I point out they cant chase me up with it because they took too long they would give up and not pursue it to court. Or are these companies known to be that stupid>?

hoohoo

They are that stupid.

Appeal then use POPLA to kill it off. They are too stupid to cut their losses with that too

bod1467

Ref. Notice To Keeper XXXXX Received 12/12/2013
Incident Date: 08/10/2013

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle with the mark XXNN YYYY. I have received your Notice to Keeper and am appealing against it (as the keeper, the driver shall not be disclosed) on the following points.

1) Late issue of NtK.
The notice to keeper was received outwith the maximum time laid down in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, section 8 sub-paragraph 5. (The NtK must be received no sooner than 29 days and no later than 56 days, where a Notice to Driver has been issued). Your NtK was received more than 60 days after the incident date. As such there is no keeper liability, thus you may only pursue the driver.

2) Not a Genuine Pre-Estimate of Loss
The charge you are attempting to levy alleges breach of contract. As such you are only permitted to pursue another party for provable losses arising from that breach. Your PCN charge far exceeds any losses your company incurred for this specific breach. As such it is a penalty and thus unenforceable.

I require you to either cancel this PCN forthwith, else reject this appeal and issue me with a POPLA code so I can pursue this (and win) at POPLA. Any POPLA appeal will use the above appeal points plus any others that my research deems pertinent to include.

Any communication regarding this PCN and this appeal that does not either cancel the PCN or include a POPLA code will be deemed harrasment and pursued accordingly.

Please note that I reserve the right to issue on you a Personal Costs Notification to cover my time, effort and expenditure in dealing with this frivolous claim should you reject this appeal and decide to go to POPLA. You are thus deemed to accept these terms if the POPLA and/or debt collection and/or small claims court is pursued by your company.

PRINT REGISTERED KEEPER's NAME
squiggle line - not real signature

---

There's a starter for 10.

Coupon-mad

''I like the sound of sending them a letter saying they took too long to send the NTD. What would be the best way to phrase it?''


Use bod's letter in the name of the registered keeper. You may like the sound of a simple letter and no POPLA but seriously that is NOT to be recommended IMHO. You are probably thinking that a letter saying 'too late' would stop them writing - but it wouldn't and you'd have thrown away the golden ticket of POPLA. You should be looking to kill this at POPLA or your Dad is going to get debt collector letters throughout 2014 - and some PPCs even do court. Why put him through that, when in fact a POPLA appeal will kill it if you follow our advice.

Did we say that we win 100% of POPLA appeals, and have done for 8 months now, ever since we sussed the wording that's needed?! It's true, which is why we say do the appeal as shown and be ready for POPLA.

'How to win at POPLA' is a link in the 'Newbies read this first' sticky thread, near the top of the parking forum.

mike213

Thank you all, I will get that done this week so it gets to them before the new year. This is seriously the best forum I have joined, extremely quick advice and more helpful then I could have imagined.

mike213

Just an update, I sent the letter off as advised last month, and either they ignored it or it got lost in the post, and I got the first debt collectors letter today. I am resending the letter to CPMS saying I have now sent it twice, is there anything I say/send to the debt collectors?

Coupon-mad

You could reply and say the case is already appealed and disputed (use that word) so they must cease contact...or just ignore the debt collector - your choice! But mainly complain to the BPA about the PPC not replying to your appeal as keeper. BPA email addy for Steve Clark is in the NEWBIES FAQs thread near the top of this forum.