Bedford railway station

adet

I've received a 'Parking Enforcement Notice' for an overstay at Bedford station, supported by photos of entry and exit.

As far as I can understand, this can be ignored, at least until / unless a notice is served on the registered keeper.

It isn't called a Penalty Charge Notice. The date of the notice is 24 days after the 'offence'. The discount for early payment is less than 50% (£75 to £50) and the notice is issued by Parkfair, who appear to be a commonly recognised scammer (owned by stuart john lawrenson) and there's no obvious loss to the operator (exit was after 2am , a time at which the car park is almost empty).

So I'll wait to see what happens.

But what interests me is this : If someone has been paying to stay in the car park and they're enforcing parking fees with such dodgy tactics, is there any point paying at all ? Why not just ignore them completely ?

Umkomaas

24 days is out of time.

Does the 'Parking Enforcement Notice' mention Notice to Keeper and/or The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012?

Coupon-mad

adet wrote: »

I've received a 'Parking Enforcement Notice' for an overstay at Bedford station, supported by photos of entry and exit.

As far as I can understand, this can be ignored, at least until / unless a notice is served on the registered keeper.

It isn't called a Penalty Charge Notice. The date of the notice is 24 days after the 'offence'. The discount for early payment is less than 50% (£75 to £50) and the notice is issued by Parkfair, who appear to be a commonly recognised scammer (owned by stuart john lawrenson) and there's no obvious loss to the operator (exit was after 2am , a time at which the car park is almost empty).

Surely that IS the Notice which was served on the keeper?

Come on, wake up please, you are about to ignore the very Notice that gives the keeper the right to appeal?! You have the first letter and in the ''Newbies'' info sticky thread that you will have read already I hope, you will see that I explain that a NTK is sometimes called another name. 'NEWBIES READ THIS FIRST!' is the thread you should have read (at the top of the forum). I would have thought you would have seen or realised that a NTK is often called something else...obviously it's the first Notice sent to the Keeper! No-one's ever said before that they were going to ignore it and wait for a different 'Notice'! Eeeek, don't miss your deadline!

adet wrote: »

But what interests me is this : If someone has been paying to stay in the car park and they're enforcing parking fees with such dodgy tactics, is there any point paying at all ? Why not just ignore them completely ?

Forget that for an idea. None of us condones not paying a fee to actually park. And if you try it you would be perpetuating the very 'reason' PPCs exist.

adet

No, it doesn't mention keepers, drivers or anything of that sort. There is no reference to POFA or any other Act.

adet

I'm a bit puzzled by this advice about ignoring the letters. What changed ? I've tried to find more recent advice at the end of the threads, as suggested, but haven't found what to do yet when an NTK (if that's what it is) is received.

Yes, it's probably the first contact. It breaks lots of section 9 stuff (there was no windscreen ticket) - more than 14 days, no statement that the driver is unknown, etc. The nearest I can find to that is a statement that 'We believe that the issue of the PEN may provide reasonable cause for us to obtain your details from DVLA'.

The appeal timeout of 14 days actually occurs tomorrow, but it's not clear if that's also true for a POPLA appeal.

adet

OK, So I reluctantly filled in the PPC's web appeal form.

As I understand it, I am likely to have that rejected, and I then proceed to a POPLA appeal.

However, if the initial contact didn't conform to the requirements for a NTK, surely it can't be considered as one ? So any limit it sets on appeal timing (especially if they're less than 28 days) is meaningless ?

Coupon-mad

According to the BPA AOS members' list, ParkFair are Sagoss:

http://www.sagoss.co.uk/

adet wrote: »

OK, So I reluctantly filled in the PPC's web appeal form.

As I understand it, I am likely to have that rejected, and I then proceed to a POPLA appeal.

However, if the initial contact didn't conform to the requirements for a NTK, surely it can't be considered as one ? So any limit it sets on appeal timing (especially if they're less than 28 days) is meaningless ?

No it's not, because there is still a requirement for them to comply with the BPA Code of Practice even if they have chosen not to use a POFA2012 compliant Notice/Letter. And they were right not to, in a railway station car park, because it's likely to be land covered by railway bylaws which would not be 'relevant land' under POFA 2012 anyway.

The BPA CoP is linked in the ''Newbies'' sticky thread and you can read it to see what the PPC have done right and wrong. Look at their signage and what the ticket says (I presume there was no windscreen ticket at all?).

We want you to win at POPLA but I can't recall a ParkFair one yet. I never like to assume that it will be the same as all the rest because the signage wording is key.

Can you show us a photo of the signs at the car park please? And a scan or photo of both sides, all small print in the PCN letter thingy (whatever they called it, but cover your ID details & car reg/PCN number/ref/barcode). I want to be sure whether they are alleging 'breach of terms/failure to comply' - or conversely whether their signs and letters allege that the driver somehow 'contractually agreed to pay that amount to park'.

adet

Could you explain "even if they have chosen not to use a POFA2012 compliant Notice/Letter." please ?

The letter is clearly not POFA2012 compliant. But it's addressed to me with details obtained from DVLA, even though it doesn't use the term 'registered keeper'. So is there a way they can legally make a claim WITHOUT keeping to POFA?

It will take me a little while to get photos of the car park signs. I think it's quite possible that it mentions 2am as the expiry time and the vehicle was removed after that. My objection to paying the fine is that that's arbitrary and inconsistent with the railway terms (and was never a problem before the current equipment was installed), but what I think is a reason to appeal is that the company has obtained details from DVLC but has not followed the law that permits them to do that. So I'm curious as to whether a payment can be demanded whilst ignoring that law.

adet

The "Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4" document states that

The registered keeper has 28 days after receiving a notice from the landholder in which to provide the driver’s details, pay the parking charge, or appeal against the ticket.

But the 'PEN' states that the payment must be made in 28 days or an appeal started in 14 days. How are they able to reduce the time permitted to start an appeal ?

Coupon-mad

adet wrote: »

The letter is clearly not POFA2012 compliant. But it's addressed to me with details obtained from DVLA, even though it doesn't use the term 'registered keeper'. So is there a way they can legally make a claim WITHOUT keeping to POFA?

Yep, shockingly, despite the aims of the legislation, there's a two-tier system running with DVLA complicit in allowing PPCs to sidestep POFA2012:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=79059

They have to comply with the BPA Code of Practice re appeals, so that's what you should be comparing your PPC to, not POFA2012.