Dad died, mum homeless, all helpless, long read sorry uk

Ap_hazard_42

My father died earlier this year, he has a wife and myself ( his 1 daughter)

He had a will which he had a solicitor write a couple of weeks before he died.

My mum had little knowledge of the will and indeed of what assets and liabilities he had. My mum was never on the deed of the property they lived in and he owned for 40 + years. He owned a business which was run from the property and again this was in his name only. They had no joint bank accounts.

She knew he had written a will and we found my father had two executors , his brother and nephew. He had left the house and land to my mother and other legacies mounting to 41 thousand !to various friends and to the executors and myself. He then split the residue estate in quatres my mum, myself and his 2 grandchildren.

He instructed that the business had to be sold and stock , equipment etc..to be converted into cash. He had little cash, more property/land. He had a business loan of 30 thousand outstanding and another 10 grand loan.

The property left to my mum is in poor repair in fact she could not stay there. She moved in with a relative. She was left with no home and no money.

The executors and solicitor of my fathers estate have been unkind and we have struggled to get information from them as we are beneficiaries !but are not executors.

In oct this year we hired our own solicitor as the estate accounts were due and we had to ask for them. We found invoices attached from another male relative for work he had carried out under instruction of the executors. The bill was for 5,000 with no receipts . The executor also put a bill into the estate for 2,000 for his time. Also no receipts. There is NOT a charging clause in the will.

We asked our solicitor to write to my fathers solicitor ( understanding that we were paying for our solicitor and the residue estate was also being drained by the solicitor and executors of my fathers estate) to inform them that we did not want to pay their invoices and that there was not a charging Clause and that the people asked by my father to clear the business and prepare for sales etc.. We're also beneficiary of the will. Thus looking to us like they were already being paid through the estate with there legacies . One of them was receiving property worth 40,000.

This letter did not go down well and the letter we received back from my fathers solicitor and the executors was inflammatory . We cannot afford to keep paying both solicitors and have letters coming back and forth , also my mum is getting increasingly upset.

My father had a debt of 30,000 , a business loan. In the solicitors recent letter he has mentioned that my mum will have to Sell land to pay the loan back into the residue estate. The property she will own needs so much work she will need money to renovate otherwise sell for a massive loss.

Finally MY questions are:

I believed that all the business being converted into cash would pay the business loan and my mum would receive her legacy in full. Is this correct?

Can we sue the executors after the estate is administered if they continue to pay themselves and the male cousin? I think the male cousins payment is a grey area but the executor should not be paid for his time!

What are the chances of my mum wining if she contested the will?

Just tired ,fed up and helpless! Many thanks for reading all the above and any help or advice.

Dunroamin

Ap_hazard_42 wrote: »

My father died earlier this year, he has a wife and myself ( his 1 daughter)

He had a will which he had a solicitor write a couple of weeks before he died.

My mum had little knowledge of the will and indeed of what assets and liabilities he had. My mum was never on the deed of the property they lived in and he owned for 40 + years. He owned a business which was run from the property and again this was in his name only. They had no joint bank accounts.

She knew he had written a will and we found my father had two executors , his brother and nephew. He had left the house and land to my mother and other legacies mounting to 41 thousand !to various friends and to the executors and myself. He then split the residue estate in quatres my mum, myself and his 2 grandchildren.

He instructed that the business had to be sold and stock , equipment etc..to be converted into cash. He had little cash, more property/land. He had a business loan of 30 thousand outstanding and another 10 grand loan.

The property left to my mum is in poor repair in fact she could not stay there. She moved in with a relative. She was left with no home and no money.

The executors and solicitor of my fathers estate have been unkind and we have struggled to get information from them as we are beneficiaries !but are not executors.

In oct this year we hired our own solicitor as the estate accounts were due and we had to ask for them. We found invoices attached from another male relative for work he had carried out under instruction of the executors. The bill was for 5,000 with no receipts . The executor also put a bill into the estate for 2,000 for his time. Also no receipts. There is NOT a charging clause in the will.

We asked our solicitor to write to my fathers solicitor ( understanding that we were paying for our solicitor and the residue estate was also being drained by the solicitor and executors of my fathers estate) to inform them that we did not want to pay their invoices and that there was not a charging Clause and that the people asked by my father to clear the business and prepare for sales etc.. We're also beneficiary of the will. Thus looking to us like they were already being paid through the estate with there legacies . One of them was receiving property worth 40,000.

This letter did not go down well and the letter we received back from my fathers solicitor and the executors was inflammatory . We cannot afford to keep paying both solicitors and have letters coming back and forth , also my mum is getting increasingly upset.

My father had a debt of 30,000 , a business loan. In the solicitors recent letter he has mentioned that my mum will have to Sell land to pay the loan back into the residue estate. The property she will own needs so much work she will need money to renovate otherwise sell for a massive loss.

Finally MY questions are:

I believed that all the business being converted into cash would pay the business loan and my mum would receive her legacy in full. Is this correct?

Can we sue the executors after the estate is administered if they continue to pay themselves and the male cousin? I think the male cousins payment is a grey area but the executor should not be paid for his time!

What are the chances of my mum wining if she contested the will?

Just tired ,fed up and helpless! Many thanks for reading all the above and any help or advice.

If your mother has inherited a property, even if she feels she can't live in it, then she still has an asset that she can sell to bring in a decent sum.

troubleinparadise

I believed that all the business being converted into cash would pay the business loan and my mum would receive her legacy in full. Is this correct?

That really depends on how much money was raised by the selling of the business and stock etc.

Have the accounts shown what that sum was, and does it exceed the £40k outstanding in loans, along with whatever other debts there were?

The debts of an estate have to be paid; sometimes capital assets have to be sold to meet that debt, and the residue given to the beneficiary.

You seem unhappy about the way the executors are handling the estate and payments being made. Has your solicitor advised you as to whether this is correct or not?

madbadrob

Firstly is the solicitor of the executors doing the work? If not then the executor cannnot charge for their time in executing the will.

With regards to the loans. Were these business loans? if so was the business a limited company. If the answer is yes to both then the estate can only be held liable for the debts to the extent of the business sales. If the business was a sole trader then unfortunately the debts will have to be paid from the estate. This could well lead to the house having to be sold to make these payments however if that is the case what ever is left after would go direct to your mum and the other beneficiaries would all lose out.

With regards to the work that was billed to the estate. What was the bill for? Is the cost in line with the work carried out? If not then you could put a claim against the executors for not carrying out their duties correctly.

I would forget contesting the will because you dont seem to have grounds and the fact you are happy for the house to be left to your mum would suggest this.

If you could answer the points raised by myself and others we may be able to offer you a bit more tailored advice

Rob

Ap_hazard_42

Hi, thank you for your replies, I am so grateful for help. Please don't underestimate how much this means.

We are unhappy with my fathers family as we have been ignored when we had questions and been told to know our place . With the situation we are in we are powerless .

Our solicitor seems to sit on the fence.. He wrote informing the executors that we did not want to pay the the executors or my cousin but the solicitor acting for the executors ignored the points we made and said my father had said in his solicitors notes that the executors had to be paid for their work. My father wouldn't have paid people twice ( from the estate and then out of the estate .. He wouldn't have wanted anyone to pay tax) That's why he left them legacies in the will. But they want more..

Rob, the executors are my uncle and my cousin. The solicitor is not an executor. My dad was a sole trader. The loans were business loans taken out in my fathers name only. There is enough money in the residue to pay his debts as he appears to request in his will. We don't mind and understand his debts need to be paid from the estate but NOT from my mums legacy .

Can I sue the executors once the will is executed? I cannot continue to pay both solicitors. It's a waste of resources.

To clarify,

Can we sue the executors if the executor is paid for his time with no charging Claus in the will? His bill states ' my time at £ 20 per hour. '

Does the debt have to be paid from my mums legacy if there is money in the residue estate?

Its hard dealing with people who appear to have no morals or compassion.

Hope this answers the question troublein paradise and madbadrob. Many thanks

Gingernutty

Er, a lay executor shouldn't charge for his services.

The only thing an executor, who is not a legal professional can charge for are legitimate expenses. Legal fees, extra copies of the death certificate and so on.

Any other fees are not to be applied.

madbadrob

I would start now by asking your solicitor to issue a notice of intent to have the executors removed as you do not believe they are acting within the law and to the best interest of the estate.

It doesnt matter what the solicitor has in his notes the will does not state that expenses can be taken from the estate. Your mums legacy is the house and the only reason that can be taken from her is if the debts are greater than the cash within the estate. If that is the case then everyone but your mum would lose out because she is the person gifted the property and therefore whatever is left if the house has to be sold is your mums.

Yes you can sue the executors after the estate is settled if you can prove that the executors have cost you any legacy you was entitled to and also if they acted outside of the law. That said its not easy or cheap

Rob

Ap_hazard_42

Thank you gingernutty and madbadrob once again for your valuable advice, myself and my mum do feel lost in the legal system and the emotional side too. My mum has been married to my father for 40 plus yrs and cared for him through his illness for the last year before dying.

If we try to remove the executors for not acting within the law. Can this be used as an incentive for them to not pay the executor ? And just adminster the estate. or can they then drag the situation out making us more poor through spending the residue on their own case to be paid? then we have to pay our solicitor. I believe our solicitor knows the other one very well.

Also why is my father solicitor indulging the executors? If he knows they should not be paid. Surely he could be reported for trying to 'line his pockets' ? Instigating ' more bad feeling' Can I report him for his conduct? If so who do we turn to?

Can I issue a ' Notice of intent ' or does it have to be a solicitor? Also can this be done once probate has been granted as probate has already been granted a month ago.

Thank you once again for your help.
Best wishes

Ap_hazard_42

Thank you for the link gingernutty. Having a look now.

Ap_hazard_42

Sorry, another question. Do all benefIciarys have to agree to remove the executors ? My fathers grandchildren are under 18 thus the trustees ( executors) are in charge of their legacies .

Ap_hazard_42

I would also like to say the executors and cousins and my fathers friends who were named in the will to help sell stock, prepare and clean the propery were all given generous gifts in the will. There is no reason for them to be making extra claims to the estate. He was fair with them but it is my mum who continues to suffer.