30 days/ 1 month notice on 30th january?

Kynthia

damino wrote: »

I spoke to a relative he said that's how it works, you give 30 days notice, and I spoke to a few different councils, different departments, all agreed that it's 30 days notice. So, it is at least a very strong convention.

The thing is it's 'at least one tenancy period' as notice. As most people have their tenancy periods as a month then 30/31 days is not really wrong the problem is it isn't one month from any date. The notice must be aligned to the tenancy period dates such as first to last of the month or 15th to 14th of the month. This also means you avoid the problems of paying part months of rent or trying to get your landlord to refund you part of a month's rent. However it's great if you can agree something in writing with the landlord that makes you both happy.

damino

@Kynthis you quoted me wrongly by skipping out paragraphs without indicating, and by taking a sentence in the middle of a paragraph and putting as if it's the start of a paragraph. I don't know whether you misunderstood me, or understood me. I guess you understood me. I did mean 30 days notice but either way I can still address your point..'cos you still have a point that can be addressed, I can see your point being that if one picks a date within the month, then even when or rather, even though, they give 30 days notice before leaving, they're then not staying to exact 30 day or monthly periods.

As to your point, about the month one leaves, being at the start/end date, so that it's an exact month. That (at least with LHA) doesn't apply that much 'cos LHA is paid weekly (every monday). And one calls the LHA people preferably I think at least by the friday before one leaves and then if say you're leaving sunday, then fine they just put no new payment in on monday. And if you're leaving wednesday then come monday they'll pay for monday and tuesday and maybe wednesday. If they are notified later, they'll persue the landlord first, or sometimes apparentky, the claimant, for the surplus back, to be reimbursed. I don't know the exact details if I got them right But, the point is LHA is weekly and designed to not have to be set to any 30 day or even "4 week" period. And it's set up to be adjusted to the day when a person leaves - the LHA system pays according to that.

Kynthia

Apologies, I accidently left a sentence in from your post and I have deleted it now. However I've quoted one paragraph from your post which was the point I was responding.

I'm afraid I don't understand your post above. My point was twofold. Firstly that 30 days isn't exactly right but not far off as people have to give a whole tenancy period as notice, and as most people have tenancy periods that are a month long then 11 out of 12 of these are 30 or 31 days. Secondly that you can't give notice at any time during a month, as you have to give at least a whole tenancy period as notice not mid one to mid the next. So even if everyone you personally have asked says you just give 30 days and it's the 'convention' it doesn't meant they are right, or it means they forgot to specify to you that this notice must start at a certain point within the month (ie your tenancy periods).

Now are you saying that your tenancy periods aren't monthly? Do you rent from the council and what do they say your notice requirements are?

damino

@Kynthia they said what they said, quite explicit, nobody forgetting to say anything, no misunderstanding there. But you ask an interesting question about period. (is it monthly, is it weekly?) I was just thinking that myself. though it's probably not that relevant when there is a break clause that specifies 30 days notice ,e.g. that after some number of months into the tenancy(like 4 months), one can give notice to the other, one month's notice, the notice being one which determines the term. and when the notice expires, the tenancy agreement(according to the text of the break clause) becomes void other than where rights are breached. So, that break clause makes it clear, for my case anyway, that it doesn't have to be the start/end date. (also I understand that the landlord can't throw the tenant out within the 6 months, even if the tenancy agreement gives him that right, as the law prevents that). I think the period is monthly.. It says when the term commences and terminates, and Rent: the amount per week, for every month of the term. and Payable, two to four weekly. So I suppose it's a monthly period as it says "for every month of the term". It is a 6 month term. But that doesn't mean you can't -easily- cut it short in a particular month(though not the first four) during or after the 6 months. The council make the calculation and do so routinely for anybody when they end their tenancy. Even if the period is monthly, the council make a calculation 'cos for them it's weekly. (the council told me payment is every week.. though the agreement makes it look like it's every two weeks or every four weeks or that the landlord would be ok with it being every two or four weeks, even if the council pay every week) So, there is a distinction between the period and when it's payable, they don't / wouldn't match exactly unless there was some weird "fluke" of the calendar.

As to your other point about the 30 days..and some months being 30 days some being 31 days.. yep I think this applies to a tenancy over 6 months too. But the payment ends up for how many weeks and days there are in the tenancy. And the "30 days" is more of an approx 30 days, as it's agreed upon, and uses a convention. Like, just as tenancies do or tend to start on date x of a month and end on date x-1 of the month. So too the common convention seems to be to give notice on date x e.g. the 17th, and move out on date x-1 e.g. the 16th(17th-1) of the next month. my landlord also says that if I give notince on the 1st of a month I can leave on the last day of the month 30th/31st. I don't know whether they apply that to Feb, and it's probably courteous for feb if I wanted to leave on the 28th, to give them notice on like Jan 29th or, not Jan 31st or Feb 1st. And one should probably let them know on a working day. So the 30 days notice or the last 30 days of the notice, starts on a working day. And one would/should agree it with the landlord anyway when they do give notice, and that way also there's no confusion on such details of what the convention is/might be.

jamie11

damino wrote: »

@Kynthia they said what they said, quite explicit, nobody forgetting to say anything, no misunderstanding there. But you ask an interesting question about period. (is it monthly, is it weekly?) I was just thinking that myself. though it's probably not that relevant when there is a break clause that specifies 30 days notice ,e.g. that after some number of months into the tenancy(like 4 months), one can give notice to the other, one month's notice, the notice being one which determines the term. and when the notice expires, the tenancy agreement(according to the text of the break clause) becomes void other than where rights are breached. So, that break clause makes it clear, for my case anyway, that it doesn't have to be the start/end date. (also I understand that the landlord can't throw the tenant out within the 6 months, even if the tenancy agreement gives him that right, as the law prevents that). I think the period is monthly.. It says when the term commences and terminates, and Rent: the amount per week, for every month of the term. and Payable, two to four weekly. So I suppose it's a monthly period as it says "for every month of the term". It is a 6 month term. But that doesn't mean you can't -easily- cut it short in a particular month(though not the first four) during or after the 6 months. The council make the calculation and do so routinely for anybody when they end their tenancy. Even if the period is monthly, the council make a calculation 'cos for them it's weekly. (the council told me payment is every week.. though the agreement makes it look like it's every two weeks or every four weeks or that the landlord would be ok with it being every two or four weeks, even if the council pay every week) So, there is a distinction between the period and when it's payable, they don't / wouldn't match exactly unless there was some weird "fluke" of the calendar.

As to your other point about the 30 days..and some months being 30 days some being 31 days.. yep I think this applies to a tenancy over 6 months too. But the payment ends up for how many weeks and days there are in the tenancy. And the "30 days" is more of an approx 30 days, as it's agreed upon, and uses a convention. Like, just as tenancies do or tend to start on date x of a month and end on date x-1 of the month. So too the common convention seems to be to give notice on date x e.g. the 17th, and move out on date x-1 e.g. the 16th(17th-1) of the next month. my landlord also says that if I give notince on the 1st of a month I can leave on the last day of the month 30th/31st. I don't know whether they apply that to Feb, and it's probably courteous for feb if I wanted to leave on the 28th, to give them notice on like Jan 29th or, not Jan 31st or Feb 1st. And one should probably let them know on a working day. So the 30 days notice or the last 30 days of the notice, starts on a working day. And one would/should agree it with the landlord anyway when they do give notice, and that way also there's no confusion on such details of what the convention is/might be.

You're a bit confused and confusing.

None of the above makes much sense.

LHA is usually paid every 28 days in arrears, even where the rent is reserved as a monthly advance payment.

Your contention that 30 days is sufficient as notice is only nearly right, a tenancy period runs from (say) 4th of the month to the following 3rd of the month, and then starts again.. February can be an anomaly if the tenancy started on the 30/31st of any month., however that is still a tenancy period even if the 30/31st of February does not exist, it sort of goes by in a flash, don't trip yourself up with logic, this is the law we're talking about.

G_M

The notice required depends on the tenancy type.

In a periodic tenancy, notice must encompass a full tenancy period, and end with end of the period.

There is a similar discussion here, with case law (similar to the case law referred to in post 3 above):

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/archive/index.php/t-12309.html

damino

@jamie i'll check that. it'd be interesting if you had that in writing anywhere from the Govt. 'cos the council LHA dept, if I call them to check, might tell me they pay it weekly. In fact i've heard that one of the (perhaps weeker) reasons people don't like DSS tenants is the payment is weekly

@G_M In my case, there is a break clause that after (I think 4) months, the tenancy agreement becomes null and void other than the rights of the parties, and one can give the other 30 days notice to determine the term of the tenancy.

so it's legal there even with the notice not encompassing a tenancy period.

Whereas I suppose if that break clause wan't there, then -from what has been said- i've no doubt the notice has to encompass a full tenancy period!

I wonder if some landlords even without a break clause, still allow any 30 days, but I suppose that situation is risky for a tenant to do.

FR_262

30 days has nothing to do with what is required in law.

The tenant is required to give at least one month's notice. If the tenant wants to give notice just as a tenancy period has begun then (assuming the tenancy is monthly) it will be nearly two months notice that is required.

Things get more complicated on weekly tenancies. The tenant is required to give a month's notice and that must end on the last day of a tenancy period. So the longest notice here is 6 days plus one month.

edit{ of course the LL and T can come to an agreement that is without the legal requirements and that's OK. Everything in writing please, with a surrender of tenancy notice.