Having a problem with Landlord's ex!

Brainache

Hello everyone,

This is my first thread on MSE, although I've been a regular visitor for a while! I'm looking for advice regarding our private tenancy and I know that there is a wealth of experience on this forum, so here goes:

My wife and I rent a property through a letting agent, we've been here
for nearly 3 years. Our landlord lives overseas so we've never met, and he's apparently quite hard to get hold of! Some time ago our LA was contacted by the LL's estranged partner, claiming joint ownership of the property and requesting access (initially for spurious reasons).

Our contract is with the LL only, her name does not appear on it, however the LA claimed that the ex had legas docs to support her claim, so we cautiously agreed to allow her access with the LA present. It transpired that she wanted to get the house valued with a view to selling it (no big surprise).

Today we recieved a letter from the ex stating that she intends to take posession of the property from 1st Sept, effectively giving us our notice. Naturally, I got on to the LA immediately.

I understand our legal rights with respect to the AST, but it's not clear to me what claim the ex has over the prpoerty given that she has no contract with us.

I'd appreciate any insight you'd be able to offer.

Thanks,

Matt

wecanhelpu

I'm not sure of the legal position without knowing all the details.

But she she sounds like a right chancer.

Brainache

Wow, rapid response! :T

I can happily elaborate it will help. I don't doubt that she has some rights over the property but I don't know where that leaves us.

pinkshoes

If the ex has legal documents showing that half the property is hers, and she's decided she wants half the equity by selling, then I believe she has every right to get a valuation done, and then sell it. She probably had some sort of arrangement with her ex about renting it out until there was a decent amount of equity before selling.

It's one of the disadvantages of renting, never knowing when you're going to get handed your notice :-(

Good luck finding something else!!

wecanhelpu

I'm sure there will be some people with knowledge of this situation along shortly, but while I'm here I'll just give my initial thoughts

Is she aware of her obligations as a landlord?

Is she going to be responsible for returning your deposit?

you need to find out a bit more about this woman

good luck

Brainache

I don't know if there was any agreement between the LL and the ex, I get the impression their split wasn't that amicable.

> Is she aware of her obligations as a landlord?

I highly doubt it.

> Is she going to be responsible for returning your deposit?

I don't think so, that will be either the LA or LL.

> you need to find out a bit more about this woman

I know where she lives...

Gold_Shogun

I would advise being VERY wary of dealing with this "ex-partner" OR accepting what she MAY (or may not) have shown the LA at face value.

Please consider the following points :-

A) ... Your Contract is ONLY with the Named LL, and under UK Law, it is he (or HIS agents) who MUST serve you notice and handle any eviction process.

... From what you've said, YOU have not been provided any Proof that the ex-partner is authorised by the Landlord, OR EVEN whether she is actually a part owner of the property (ONLY "Hearsay" by the LA).

C) ... Bear in mind that documents can be easily forged or dummied up ... And this is often done on a fairly regular basis as a means of "hi-jacking & selling" somebody else's property.

D) ... Also bear in mind that EVEN IF she produces "oldish documents" that APPEAR genuine, said documents MAY have been superceded or over-ridden by some subsequent document or agreement which she hasn't shown (for example, a subsequent Divorce / Partnership-dissolution / Property-Share-Buyout by YOUR LL, etc).

E) ... Even IF the property is still in both names, it may well be that ONE part-owner may not be able to sell WITHOUT the express written permission of the other.

I can also think of at least a half-dozen other immediate potential "booby-traps" straight off the top of my head, so I really would advise you NOT to be rushed or pushed into promising/agreeing to do anything UNTIL YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN as to the legal status & authority of this woman.

Above all else, remember that the Legal Onus is on her to PROVE she is legally entitled to override your contract with the Sole Named LL .... NOT upon yourself to disprove it.

Cheers
Bob

franklee

If you wish to stay then I'd suggest you WRITE to the landlord asking for written clarification on the status of his EX. You DO HAVE an address in England at which you can serve notices/write to the landlord don't you? (If not the rent isn't collectible, see eagerlearners's thread why this matters). With a landlord living abroad and being difficult to get hold of you may well have trouble getting your deposit back in any case.

What does the agent say, they are acting for the landlord, so did they say the notice is valid or not? You did ask them I presume? (Best done with confirmation in writing).

Be aware that if the landlord doesn't have permission to let from his lender you will have no rights anyway, which means you could easily get chucked out if the arguments between the LL and his EX cause a repossession, so you should check that there was permission and that the mortgage is being paid . It's worth spending the three pounds to get the land registry entry that will have the owners names and tell you who has a charge on the property, typically the lender, so it tells you who the lender is too.

I'd say life's too short and if you want certainty you could find somewhere else and give your own written notice so that you can move on without worrying about if the EX's notice is valid or not.

Brainache

Thank you Gold_shogun and franklee, excellent posts both.

We are treating this issue with the upmost caution and will be speaking to our LA face-to-face in the morning. I believe the only address we have for the LL is overseas, but rent is paid to the LA. As I said, we have been in the property for about 3 years and there were 2 tenants before us, I'd be surprised if the mortgage wasn't being paid. Also, we're aware of our rights under the AST so won't be jumping for the ex!

I guess my main question is this: what is the legal distinction between (part) owner and landlord?

Thanks everyone again for your help.

P.S. I read eagerlearner's thread yesterday - magnum opus!

franklee

Well Gold_Shogun seems to have answered that I think:

Gold_Shogun wrote: »

A) ... Your Contract is ONLY with the Named LL, and under UK Law, it is he (or HIS agents) who MUST serve you notice and handle any eviction process.

I think it is up to your landlord's agent to give you written instruction on what to do. They should serve you written notice or give you written permission to ignore the ex's notice. If they sit on the fence then you are in limbo and there is the risk that there may be rights the ex has that override the tenancy agreement (much like the lender's rights can). If this was the case you could always sue the landlord for breach of the AST but if he's abroad that's probably a hiding to no where.

You really do need and address for service of notices.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/landlord's_address.htm

real1314

as there is a letting agent in this case, and as the owner appears to be aborad with their knowledge, then I'd suspect that the LA has become the landlord as there has to be a UK based landlord. They are the landlord's agent and have to assume and accept all responsibilities afaik.

write to them asking for the uk address at which you can address any queries regarding your tenancy. If they say there isn't one, you don't have a tenancy, and therefore don't have to pay rent and also cannot be evicted under any breach of tenancy or under any tenancy related eviction notice. You'd probably be classed as squatters. :rotfl:

If they give their adress however, you just tell them it's their job to sort it out.