Settlement offer too low - what now??

inapickle9

TrickyDicky101 wrote: »

Actually I meant about your next job - if the next employer gets a whiff that you took a previous one to a tribunal they may decide to get rid of a potential troublemaker (in their mind) before they have earned employment protection.

Ar right ok I understand. I have asked that as part of my settlement agreement, they provide a good reference so hopefully they wouldn't be any way of them finding out.

inapickle9

Scrootum wrote: »

You need to separate what is practical and not try getting into some crusade to get revenge. You could end up way out of pocket. The fact that none of the other employees will stand up and back up your complaint does not help your case.

This is why I put together a very reasonable figure, I've not once been in this for the money and never wanted to get to this stage but I am in a position where I have suffered massively financially and mentally and I at least want to cover my losses so I can get back on my feet and move on. I am not expecting a miracle offer and I do not expect them to offer the 14.5k plus 1 month but I think 10-12k is where I would like to be, this would clear off my debt I have accumulated and give me a few month living on the bare minimum to find another job.

unlikelyheroine

inapickle9 wrote: »

This is why I put together a very reasonable figure, I've not once been in this for the money and never wanted to get to this stage but I am in a position where I have suffered massively financially and mentally and I at least want to cover my losses so I can get back on my feet and move on. I am not expecting a miracle offer and I do not expect them to offer the 14.5k plus 1 month but I think 10-12k is where I would like to be, this would clear off my debt I have accumulated and give me a few month living on the bare minimum to find another job.

You have to do what is best for you and it seems you have had a difficult time. However people are giving you pragmatic advice here. The figure that will see you financially secure from your perspective is not what your employers are working from. They are working from what is a reasonable amount to make this go away (as explained above) and may have taken legal advice accordingly. So your number will not mean much to them and without a strong case, witnesses etc, you will struggle to prove your side of things.

I totally understand how you feel. I was effectively bullied out of a job. However it was not worth my time and energy to pursue it. What was best for me was to get another job. There is being a pushover and there is flogging a dead horse to your detriment.

Tiddlywinks

OK - what evidence do you have to support the bullying allegation? How will you prove what happened to the Tribunal?

I'm not asking to catch you out but to get you to think in hard, arms length terms about your case.

You have a bunch of stranger here - convince us.

marybelle01

inapickle9 wrote: »

Just to put things in perspective......I am off long term sick because my boss has bullied and harassed me. The reason I want to claim back my losses is because I have been penalised for what this man has done to me and I don't think my employer should get away with it. .

Sorry but no. You are off long term sick because you are sick. Your boss has ALLEGEDLY bullied you, which has been investigated and your claims not upheld, you have no witnesses and it appears from what you have said that your union does not beleive you could win a case. What may be clear or apparent to you is not objectively evidenced - otherwise your union would be saying that you have a great case.

At this stage, despite what you say, it is ONLY about the money. The employer is not compensating you, they are not admitting liability - they are offering you a sum of money to go away since you refuse to return to work. That is all that is happening. It has nothing at all to do with sickness, alleged bullying or anything else. Push it too far and they have other options. As I said before, let you resign and then attempt an almost imnpossible tribunal route. Leave you on sick pay for ever and do nothing until you voluntarily go with no claim possible (there is a deadline on making a claim - you cannot afford to wait around because claiming constructive dismissal must be an immediate response to a claimed breach of contract.

Trying to pay off your debts and have money to live on may be in your mind - they don't care and they won't negotiate on this basis. This, to the employer, is about balancing risk, and there appears to be little risk to them here. In fact the risk mostly appears to be on your side. As someone else said, you could walk away with nothing - or less than nothing if you have to pay for a tribunal that you do not win.

inapickle9

marybelle01 wrote: »

Sorry but no. You are off long term sick because you are sick. Your boss has ALLEGEDLY bullied you, which has been investigated and your claims not upheld, you have no witnesses and it appears from what you have said that your union does not beleive you could win a case. What may be clear or apparent to you is not objectively evidenced - otherwise your union would be saying that you have a great case.

At this stage, despite what you say, it is ONLY about the money. The employer is not compensating you, they are not admitting liability - they are offering you a sum of money to go away since you refuse to return to work. That is all that is happening. It has nothing at all to do with sickness, alleged bullying or anything else. Push it too far and they have other options. As I said before, let you resign and then attempt an almost imnpossible tribunal route. Leave you on sick pay for ever and do nothing until you voluntarily go with no claim possible (there is a deadline on making a claim - you cannot afford to wait around because claiming constructive dismissal must be an immediate response to a claimed breach of contract.

Trying to pay off your debts and have money to live on may be in your mind - they don't care and they won't negotiate on this basis. This, to the employer, is about balancing risk, and there appears to be little risk to them here. In fact the risk mostly appears to be on your side. As someone else said, you could walk away with nothing - or less than nothing if you have to pay for a tribunal that you do not win.

Yes I do agree with what your saying, I just think I am extremely frustrated and upset at the situation, I'm not the only one has complained about this person and nothing has been done and he has continued to get away with it.

At this point as a last resort, yes I suppose it is now about the money and getting what I can to cover my losses and make things easier to move on as I know they will not change their decision against the person in question as they would then be admitting liability.

All this started over 18 months ago and I started recording in my diary in January and the final straw was in a one 2 one meeting in May when I could not take anymore from him. I just want it over and to move on but would like a reasonable amount, I just think 4k is very low.

inapickle9

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

OK - what evidence do you have to support the bullying allegation? How will you prove what happened to the Tribunal?

I'm not asking to catch you out but to get you to think in hard, arms length terms about your case.

You have a bunch of stranger here - convince us.

In regards to evidence, I have a recording for a one on one meeting, where he swears, shouts, insults me and repeatedly says im not right for the company etc. I have notes of conversations that have taken place in my diary, proof he has treat me differently to others such as figures, system screen shots etc.
Also on the recording, in his statement, he has stated I have said really bad things which i haven't (trying to cover his back but wasn't aware I had recorded the meeting) and the recording proves otherwise. I also have text messages from employees to me (who did not wish to comment) saying how bad he is and I shouldn't come back, i don't deserve to be treat like that etc.

I have alot of evidence, however i understand these claims are very hard to win and it would be a risk.

Jaybee_16

So you asked for 14.5K and the company offered 4K. Has the process stalled now?


You need to go back to the union and ask what they feel would be a decent settlement figure which they are confident the company would agree to paying. The union should have an idea as they deal with the company regularly. You also need to tell the union that your untaken accrued leave should also be factored into the figure, together with an agreed neutral reference.


Your union solicitors don't think you have a strong case, but get back to the union and get them to do some work; it what you pay for.


If you don't get pro-active in this, time will just pass by.

marybelle01

inapickle9 wrote: »

In regards to evidence, I have a recording for a one on one meeting, where he swears, shouts, insults me and repeatedly says im not right for the company etc. I have notes of conversations that have taken place in my diary, proof he has treat me differently to others such as figures, system screen shots etc.
Also on the recording, in his statement, he has stated I have said really bad things which i haven't (trying to cover his back but wasn't aware I had recorded the meeting) and the recording proves otherwise. I also have text messages from employees to me (who did not wish to comment) saying how bad he is and I shouldn't come back, i don't deserve to be treat like that etc.

I have alot of evidence, however i understand these claims are very hard to win and it would be a risk.

I usually get it in the neck (or the back) for telling people things they don't want to hear, but I am going to say it anyway. I don't disbelieve you, I have seen a lot worse, but:


(a) You cannot prove that you either recorded a whole meeting or did not otherwise deliberately do something to wind him up to this behaviour - you have one recording and he is making counter-allegations against you which the employer appears to have chosen to believe (which they are allowed to do).


(b) Notes of conversations in a diary which you wrote. Who is to say that what you wrote is true?


(c) It is not illegal to treat people differently unless the reason for treating them differently falls under one of the defined areas of discrimination. You haven't shown this to be true.


(d) Text messages from colleagues who are not prepared to be named or to make statements are worthless - and worse than worthless in a tribunal.


The standard of evidence to prove constructive dismissal is awfully high, the employer isn't dismissing you so you can't claim unfair dismissal, and actually, most people don't realise that there is no general claim of bullying and harassment in employment law. So I can see why the union don't think you have the evidence to make a claim - I honestly don't think you have either. It isn't easy, when stuck in the middle of it, to be objective about the worth of your evidence. But a tribunal will not have a shred of sympathy - you evidence something illegal or you lose.


I'd love to be amazed, but my experience (and I am not a lawyer - but I am a manager, and a trade unionist) tells me that if the employer gets to the point of agreeing double their first offer (in your case £8k) then you have done really well, and should grab the money and run like hell before they change their minds. As others have said, your union should be advising you (nobody ever takes the first offer - either side!). But I think that realism suggests that you will have to stop thinking about what you have "lost" because this isn't about that, and you are very unlikely to get to the point where it is closer to your £18k figure that theirs.


Although you should remember that any figure here can be treated as non-taxable income, so given that your income would have been taxed, that represents a better deal for you.

sniggings

if the union do not suport this case then I would just take what ever money you can and leave, find a new job and get on with your life, a good reference will be worth getting so bare that in mind, if you fight this, I doubt a reference will be on offer, try finding a job and not having a reference from your last employer it's not easy.

As for the money you are asking for, you are coming at this all wrong, even if you win you are unlikely to be awarded anywhere near the £14k you have asked for, do a google search and you will see that awards for even the worse cases barely make it past £10k, and considering you have not been there long, it makes it all the more unlikely you will get anyway near even £10k, and that's if you win, the union will take it on IF they judge you have a more than 50% chance of winning, if they feel it's less than 50% then they will not take it on, if they have said they do not support it then take that as a warning that it is unlikey to win if you go ahead.

Forget amount what you owe and what you need to move on, look at what you are likely to get if you win, and compare that with the £4k, it will make the £4k seem much more appealing.

Try and do a deal for a bit more than £4k plus a reference, then get yourself a good job with a good employer.

I've been through this so I'm speaking from experience.