Excel Parking PCN Deadline missed for POPLA

morsicatio

Hello Everybody

I am a long time reader of MSE newsletter, but not too long on these boards! I have a situation that I have read around quite a bit, but before pursuing it any further, I would very much appreciate confirmation regarding the best course of action.

I received a PCN notice from Excel Parking >28days ago.
RE: The notice:
-There was no windscreen ticket issued.
-This ticket was issued via post with photographs attached of my vehicle.
-I was not driving at the time.
-The letter was issued within 12-days of the advised 'contravention'
-I am in England and >18years age.
-Two-months later I received a letter titled 'Liability Notice' that informs the discounted fee is no longer payable, and a higher fee is now requested.
-The price rised from £60 to £100 in the time elapsed.

Having read around these forums, I understand that the best course of action is:
1. Reset the clock by writing a letter informing that although I am not the registered keeper, I was not the driver at the time.
- This is to take approximate form of the following template shown in E34M5's post:

Dear Sir

Vehicle Registration Number [insert reg number]

I am the registered keeper of the above mentioned vehicle.

I am writing to acknowledge the letter before county court claim dated [insert date] and to inform you that I was not the driver of the vehicle on the date of the alleged 'parking event'. Therefore you must pursue the driver, whose details are:

[INSERT NAME]

[INSERT ADDRESS]

Please note: this discharges my obligation as Registered Keeper under PoFA 2012 and any court proceedings will be defended on that basis.

Yours faithfully

2. Complain to the landowner. I am unsure how I find the details of the landowner, could someone inform me of where I should look for these details. The car park not affiliated with any superstore, but confusingly appered as it may have been, hence the infringement. (I am not sure whether I should name the area, but can do if anyone recommends I should).

3. Once Excel Parking starts to pursue the named driver, the named driver will need to issue a letter in the format as shown in Coupon-mad's post of the indicated format:

'Many thanks for confirming that your charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of any loss caused by the parking event. POPLA assessors and I will be very interested to see you explain in your evidence how a loss connected to a specific incident can vary so massively, from £90, or £45 or maybe a desperate last-gasp bargain offer of £20. And yet the BPA CoP - and over a century of contract law - requires that your charge is for loss only. You also issue non-compliant Notice to Keeper letters. But I will raise the specifics of that appeal point later, seeing as you must be already aware because it's your Notice after all; you are the experts and must have compared your wording to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 and proof-read it before using that version. POPLA code please, or maybe in this instance you might prefer to cancel.

Regards,

The named driver? (I have changed the signatory to the named driver, as step 1 from above indicates that the PPC will already know the named driver, though this may be incorrect...)

4. POPLA appeal

5. Win?!!

If anyone could confirm that this is the correct sequence of events to appeal, or if any other adjustments need to be made, please do let me know! The help is really appreciated, and this seems to be an absolute staggering and awesome community. Congratulations to all!

Thanks for any help in advance.

Cheers

Morsicatio:beer:

Redx

once you have got the driver an NTD then your soft appeal would be more like this

Dear (PPC)

I am the keeper/driver of ( reg) and in receipt of your notice to keeper/driver xxxxx dated xxxxxx, all liability to your company is denied, so I wish to invoke your appeals process on the following:

1) This charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2 You do not have the authority or permission to give these invoices to motorists
3) Your signage is inadequate, and does not comply with the BPA Code of Practice

You are therefore invited to cancel this charge now, or supply a popla verification code to appeal to them on rejection, where you will be asked for a detailed breakdown of the above. As you know all appeals on the points above are upheld.

Please confirm cancellation within 35 days of the above date

Faithfully
The keeper (or driver)

then your popla appeal would be more like this https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816165

then you win , and it costs them money

as for landowner details, nobody said it was easy, use google , ask the retailers, search forums like here and pepipoo for details if others have done it, or pay the land registry , depends how far you wish to push it, but the retailers must know who owns it as they probably pay rent

Umkomaas

Definitely complain to the landowner/retailer - cleanest and quickest way to quash this.

Try an appeal to the PPC as the RK as this gives far more protection than the 'driver' doing this. Retain the 'naming of the driver' until later. Why did you do nothing until now after issue of the postal PCN?

See how you get in with the 2 actions above first.

Coupon-mad

2. Complain to the landowner. I am unsure how I find the details of the landowner, could someone inform me of where I should look for these details. The car park not affiliated with any superstore, but confusingly appered as it may have been, hence the infringement. (I am not sure whether I should name the area, but can do if anyone recommends I should).

Post #3 in the 'Successful complaints about PPCs' sticky mentions how to complain if it's a retail park and you don't need the 'landowner', you need the Centre Manager, usually easily findable with a quick Google of the retail park name alone.



3. Once Excel Parking starts to pursue the named driver, the named driver will need to issue a letter in the format as shown in Coupon-mad's post of the indicated format:

'Many thanks for confirming that your charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of any loss caused by the parking event. POPLA assessors and I will be very interested to see you explain in your evidence how a loss connected to a specific incident can vary so massively, from £90, or £45 or maybe a desperate last-gasp bargain offer of £20. And yet the BPA CoP - and over a century of contract law - requires that your charge is for loss only. You also issue non-compliant Notice to Keeper letters. But I will raise the specifics of that appeal point later, seeing as you must be already aware because it's your Notice after all; you are the experts and must have compared your wording to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 and proof-read it before using that version. POPLA code please, or maybe in this instance you might prefer to cancel.

You have got the sequence of events right, yes, if Excel play the game. To make sure they have no wriggle room, use a different address for the driver, such as another relative's address or a work addy which will be less likely to elicit a 'we think the driver's already seen the letters' response. Excel will try anything...

That one's not suitable for Excel though, as they haven't reduced the charge and the tone isn't right for a first appeal from a driver. The driver needs to write a normal appeal when they get their NTD, like the version shown by Redx.

morsicatio

Wow!

Guys, thank you very much for the super speedy responses. A bit more information regarding the above:

1. It was not a retail car park, just a private plot of land opposite a few shops in town. I thought this was the designated parking for the shops, but it was not in fact the case, it was/is just a random plot for parking in and around the city.

2. I did nothing till now because I had lost my post box key and getting it copied has been a royal pain the a$$. Massive back log of post. (Also had no idea of the new regulations post Oct 2012)

3. Excel Parking informs in the first letter you only have 28 days to inform of the named driver. I take it this is tosh, and will post back here if they try this tact.

Thanks again for the advice!

Cheers!

Coupon-mad

You tend to get quick replies on this forum as we are all over this scam like a rash!

And, yes, as you guessed, it is tosh about naming the driver in a certain short timescale. POFA 2012 states that a PPC can pursue a registered keeper only if the driver's name and address for service is not known before proceedings commence.

i.e. you can name the driver at any time prior to a small claim starting. I suggest you give a different address (but you don't 'have' to).

morsicatio

Well, good on you guys! The scam is pretty shocking, to be honest. I have the postcode for the car park, but I really cannot find any information regarding the owner, and I am not really too keen on paying the land registry for the information. Would you then say I skip the step of appealing to the landowner and go on to naming the driver?

Cheers

4consumerrights

The car park in question - are there flats there for instance of if a number of local shops try asking in a few to see.

Was there a sign at this car park with Excel on it?

********************

Just reading your first post - are you sure you have a letter before action or claim and not just a reminder notice - because they are just asking for the original charge (without discount) -

If it is not a letter before action you do not need that part in your letter (it will make Excel think you don't understand the process and may string things out a bit)

4consumerrights

Further reading your first post - you state it was just 28 days ago - I would be tempted to appeal as the Registered Keeper first anyway - if you can do it online tonight you may be still in time anyway - it definitely wont be a letter before action yet.

morsicatio

Sorry if it wasn't clear!

The letters received are:
1). 'Parking Charge Notice'
2). 'Liability Notice'
- The second letter of the two basically states that I no longer qualify for the discounted rate.
- Further, more than 28 days has passed. About two months..ish..
- I was informed that signs were not clearly visible and it was dark.
- I have not checked for the signs but can easily do so.
- I shall ask at the local shops regarding the owners of the site, following your advise.

Cheers!

4consumerrights

It would help if we had all the information at the start - however no worries!
Looks like it is too late to appeal as registered keeper so amend letter in your post to:

Dear Sir

Vehicle Registration Number [insert reg number]

I am the registered keeper of the above mentioned vehicle.

I am writing to acknowledge your recent correspondence dated ......... and .......(insert dates) and to inform you that I was not the driver of the vehicle on the date of the alleged 'parking event'. Therefore you must pursue the driver, whose details are:

[DRIVERS NAME]

[DRIVERS ADDRESS]

Please note: this discharges my obligation as Registered Keeper under PoFA 2012 and any further pursuance of this charge against me would be deemed harassment and appropiate further action may be taken against you.

Yours faithfully
squiggle name
REGISTERED KEEPER.