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Problems with Air France, what rights do I have?
BartyBoy
Posts: 408 Forumite
To start, I am very sorry it is a long story...
My partner bought two flight tickets flying between Birmingham and Athens with Air France for my birthday back in October 2013. On both outbound and inbound flights, we needed to stop at CDG to catch a connecting flight to complete the journey.
Our outbound flight was scheduled to depart at 0625, so We arrived at BHX at 0400 to check-in. When we arrived at the boarding gate for the next flight at CDG, the Air France crew told us the gate was already closed. The connecting flight was scheduled to depart at 0950 and the crew said the gate was closed 10 mins before the departing time. We were told to go to the customer desks to book ourselves to the next available flights to Athens. We were put to the 1320 flight, we ended up arriving in Athens at 1735 - 3 hours and 30 minutes later than our initial flight.
I was not happy about what happened to our outbound flight, so I contacted Air France once we got back to the UK. At first, I was told someone from Air France would phone me to discuss the issue. I waited for a week and no one from Air France phoned me. So I contacted Air France again, after another week passed by Air France's Europe Customer Care team responded to say the first Leg flight was delayed at BHX therefore it caused us to miss our connecting flight at CDG. The team compensated us £75 eVoucher.
I replied to the team to explain the delay of the first Leg flight was only part of reason why we missed our connecting flight, but the main reason, I believe, was because we were given a ridiculously short amount of time to connect the next flight.
I double checked my initial flight itinerary. It says the connecting time between Leg 1 and Leg 2 flights was 45 minutes. When we arrived at the boarding gate for the Leg 2 flight, the crew told us the gate was already closed 10 mins before the departing time (later on the Europe Customer Care team confirmed the gate was actually closed 15 mins before the departing time), so we physically had only 30 minutes to catch our next flight. Those 30 mins were counted from the time when the Leg 1 aircraft arrived at CDG. We did run to the boarding gate as soon as we got in the terminal building (2E), but we still missed the flight. There is no way a passenger can make to the next flight within 30 mins from Terminal 2E to 2F, based on what we have experienced.
I told the team what I found. The team responded to me and argued that, 'The minimum connecting time allows the majority of passengers to transfer to their connecting flights.' In the end of their reply, they also wrote, 'Despite your obvious disappointment, I do hope you can make the gracious decision to move forward from this point.'
I truly don't believe 30 mins is enough for any passengers to switch between two flights at 2 different terminals at CDG. So I decided to write to Aeroports de Paris to ask the question. Aeroports de Paris replied to me to say 90 mins were recommended to switch between flights between terminal 2E and 2F, passengers require time to pass immigration and security check. They commented 30 mins was too short.
I forwarded the reply from Aeroports de Paris to the Europe Customer Care team. I asked the team to get back to me about the comment from Aeroports de Paris. It was a week ago and I never receive a response from them again. I am well annoyed and disappointed with the service and the product that I have received from Air France here.
My partner paid over £800 for the tickets. We chose to leave at BHX first thing in the morning (at 0625) because we wanted to arrive in Athens in the early afternoon (at 1405), but in the end we only arrived in Athens at 1735 instead.
The Europe Customer Care team argued it was all caused by the delay of the Leg 1 flight, but then they claimed the Leg 1 flight arrived only 10 mins later than the scheduled arrival time. If a passenger cannot connect to the next flight due to a 10 mins delay from the previous flight, wouldn't Air France think perhaps the connecting time is too short? I really feel that something is not right here.
In such situation, what rights do we have?
Many thanks in advance!
My partner bought two flight tickets flying between Birmingham and Athens with Air France for my birthday back in October 2013. On both outbound and inbound flights, we needed to stop at CDG to catch a connecting flight to complete the journey.
Our outbound flight was scheduled to depart at 0625, so We arrived at BHX at 0400 to check-in. When we arrived at the boarding gate for the next flight at CDG, the Air France crew told us the gate was already closed. The connecting flight was scheduled to depart at 0950 and the crew said the gate was closed 10 mins before the departing time. We were told to go to the customer desks to book ourselves to the next available flights to Athens. We were put to the 1320 flight, we ended up arriving in Athens at 1735 - 3 hours and 30 minutes later than our initial flight.
I was not happy about what happened to our outbound flight, so I contacted Air France once we got back to the UK. At first, I was told someone from Air France would phone me to discuss the issue. I waited for a week and no one from Air France phoned me. So I contacted Air France again, after another week passed by Air France's Europe Customer Care team responded to say the first Leg flight was delayed at BHX therefore it caused us to miss our connecting flight at CDG. The team compensated us £75 eVoucher.
I replied to the team to explain the delay of the first Leg flight was only part of reason why we missed our connecting flight, but the main reason, I believe, was because we were given a ridiculously short amount of time to connect the next flight.
I double checked my initial flight itinerary. It says the connecting time between Leg 1 and Leg 2 flights was 45 minutes. When we arrived at the boarding gate for the Leg 2 flight, the crew told us the gate was already closed 10 mins before the departing time (later on the Europe Customer Care team confirmed the gate was actually closed 15 mins before the departing time), so we physically had only 30 minutes to catch our next flight. Those 30 mins were counted from the time when the Leg 1 aircraft arrived at CDG. We did run to the boarding gate as soon as we got in the terminal building (2E), but we still missed the flight. There is no way a passenger can make to the next flight within 30 mins from Terminal 2E to 2F, based on what we have experienced.
I told the team what I found. The team responded to me and argued that, 'The minimum connecting time allows the majority of passengers to transfer to their connecting flights.' In the end of their reply, they also wrote, 'Despite your obvious disappointment, I do hope you can make the gracious decision to move forward from this point.'
I truly don't believe 30 mins is enough for any passengers to switch between two flights at 2 different terminals at CDG. So I decided to write to Aeroports de Paris to ask the question. Aeroports de Paris replied to me to say 90 mins were recommended to switch between flights between terminal 2E and 2F, passengers require time to pass immigration and security check. They commented 30 mins was too short.
I forwarded the reply from Aeroports de Paris to the Europe Customer Care team. I asked the team to get back to me about the comment from Aeroports de Paris. It was a week ago and I never receive a response from them again. I am well annoyed and disappointed with the service and the product that I have received from Air France here.
My partner paid over £800 for the tickets. We chose to leave at BHX first thing in the morning (at 0625) because we wanted to arrive in Athens in the early afternoon (at 1405), but in the end we only arrived in Athens at 1735 instead.
The Europe Customer Care team argued it was all caused by the delay of the Leg 1 flight, but then they claimed the Leg 1 flight arrived only 10 mins later than the scheduled arrival time. If a passenger cannot connect to the next flight due to a 10 mins delay from the previous flight, wouldn't Air France think perhaps the connecting time is too short? I really feel that something is not right here.
In such situation, what rights do we have?
Many thanks in advance!
0
Comments
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I am confused.
You are complaining that the connection flight they gave you was too short, so they then put you on the next flight.
If you wanted a longer connection time, then they would have booked you for the next flight, which is the one you caught.
They no doubt gave you the earlier connection just incase you could make it.Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
I'm not sure whether this should fall under the European airline compensation ruling as the first flight was delayed by 10 minutes. Maybe someone else will be able to clarify this situation0
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£75 for 3½ hours sounds ok to me.0
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The Europe Customer Care team argued it was all caused by the delay of the Leg 1 flight, but then they claimed the Leg 1 flight arrived only 10 mins later than the scheduled arrival time. If a passenger cannot connect to the next flight due to a 10 mins delay from the previous flight, wouldn't Air France think perhaps the connecting time is too short? I really feel that something is not right here.
To be honest I think pinkshoes' conclusion was correct. There always has to be some point at which a delayed flight arrives too late to make a connection. In your case 10 minutes was enough for it to be missed, but if it had been on time you might have made it. You accepted a tight connection when the flights were booked, if you were concerned then you should have looked for an alternative that gave you more time (which may well have been the flights that you did actually take).
I'd say you are not going to get any more than you've already been offered, although it's possible you might be able to get a cash alternative to vouchers (although that might be a lower amount).
Edited to add: this page gives 2E to 2F connecting times of 25 - 30 minutes.
http://www.easycdg.com/1/passenger-information/connecting-flight-connections-paris-cdg-airport/connection-terminal-2e-paris-cdg-charlesdegaulle-airport/connection-terminal-2e-2f-paris-cdg-charlesdegaulle-airport/0 -
For a start you are dealing with a French company and if you have ever lived in French colonies (or France) then you would know they wouldn't give a monkeys about your extremely trivial (in their eyes) delay.
Your delay really is minor and having spent many nights on airport floors due to delays and cancellations without a thought for a claim you should count yourself lucky to get £75.0 -
You are complaining that the connection flight they gave you was too short, so they then put you on the next flight. If you wanted a longer connection time, then they would have booked you for the next flight, which is the one you caught.
Yes, I am complaining the connecting time was too short to catch our connecting flight.
We were sold an outbound ticket to leave Birmingham at 0625 and to arrive in Athens at 1405. As long as this happened, we did not mind if the connecting time was 30 mins or 3 hours.
As I explained before, we could not arrive in Athens at 1405 (the initial arrival time) due to the fact that there was no way we could run to the terminal 2F from 2E, and go through the security check within 30 minutes. As Air France sold us the ticket with this time frame, I would expect Air France to know it was impossible to do so. This is what I am talking about.0 -
They no doubt gave you the earlier connection just incase you could make it.
And they really thought we (or any passengers) could make it to the connecting flight within 30 minutes?
I am in my 30s, I had to run from terminal 2F to 2E and I still could not make it to the next flight, what makes Air France thinks it was possible for passengers to make it to the next flight in such short period of time.0 -
Apparenty so.And they really thought we (or any passengers) could make it to the connecting flight within 30 minutes?
And as the Charles de Gaulle Airport website that Agrinnall linked to shows, it is understandable for Air France to think that:Edited to add: this page gives 2E to 2F connecting times of 25 - 30 minutes.
http://www.easycdg.com/1/passenger-information/connecting-flight-connections-paris-cdg-airport/connection-terminal-2e-paris-cdg-charlesdegaulle-airport/connection-terminal-2e-2f-paris-cdg-charlesdegaulle-airport/
Answer as above....what makes Air France thinks it was possible for passengers to make it to the next flight in such short period of time.0 -
You accepted a tight connection when the flights were booked, if you were concerned then you should have looked for an alternative that gave you more time (which may well have been the flights that you did actually take).
I think there are two different parts here.
First of all, on the ticket it says the connecting time was 45 minutes, but there is no sign in anywhere to say the gate would actually close 15 minutes in advance, therefore the physical connecting was only 30 minutes. If we knew it was just half an hour that we had, we wouldn't even think to book this flight in the first place.
Secondly, when Air France proposed this specific time frame of flights to us, I would expect Air France had the best knowledge and experience to judge whether it was achievable in the reality or not. If it is not achievable, why would Air France sell this time frame of tickets?
They said we had 45 mins to make to the next flight, and we should be able to make it. But in truth, we only had 30 minutes and we simply couldn't run any faster to make to the gate before it was closed.0 -
Apparenty so.
And as the Charles de Gaulle Airport website that Agrinnall linked to shows, it is understandable for Air France to think that:
Answer as above.
That website doesn't belong to CDG, please read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page. I went to that website before and saw the disclaimer. This is why I wrote to Aeroports de Paris (which is the official CDG website) directly to ask about the minimum connecting time for flights between Terminal 2E and 2F.0
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