ford ka headlight - ridiculous

Richard53

All this talk of 'torque screws' ... do we mean Torx screws, the ones with six little splines?

I'm sure they are fitted because the manufacturers think we will be mystified by them and head for the dealership. The good news is that you can now get a penknife-style fold-out set of smaller Torx drivers for around a fiver at Homebase. Worth carrying along with the car's toolkit if you have a lot of these fasteners to deal with.

andygb

StrongWork wrote: »

Old mid 90s BMW like an E36. Seems to be designed to be worked on. Routine tasks such as changing headlights, brakes etc are straightforward.

IMO, one should be able to replace headlight bulbs with the car's on board tool kit in <15 mins on the side of the road.

I had one of the old E34 5 series, and changing bulbs etc was dead easy.

Prothet_of_Doom

OP,
You have 3 points in your post.

1) Why make changing bulbs difficult?
2) Why is the Power Steering Pipework on a focus failing
3) Why are spare parts prices so high compared to the actual real cost of manufacture ?

1) It's down to Measures of Performance on the design teams. I worked on an anti-theft solenoid where the target was "must not be able to start the car within 15 minutes of unspecified abuse"...it was tested by a third party organisation who employed ex theives, and it delayed our solenoid by 6 months, whilst we failed to achieve the target.
I'm guessing the target for the head lights is cost of all the parts pre-fitted at the supplier, plus delivery plus the cost of fitting in the factory. That is until there is a prototype for the service team to look at, (by which time it's too late), nobody actually cares about the customer's trivial service issues. It doesn't sell cars.
2) !!!! happens. Did it fail safe? Is it a known problem? Despite having the latest design CAD software and stress analysis tools, design engineers sometimes design parts that fail too soon. They only get recalled when they don't fail safe or when it's causing massive warranty claims, or affecting sales. They SHOULD do better. But they don't.
3) It's all about profit. Typically spares cost 10 times the manufactured cost, unless they are service items, and there are none-genuine alternatives. Does anyone buy tyres from the dealer ? No. The market is competitive for those. Power steering pipes are something that there isn't much competition for, and quite frankly I'd only want genuine parts. My exhaust manifold has a crack and I know that to make it would cost £20 in volume, but Honda want £350 plus 3 hours labour. I will probably do it myself, but waste a couple of days doing it.

Prothet_of_Doom

Richard53 wrote: »

All this talk of 'torque screws' ... do we mean Torx screws, the ones with six little splines?

I'm sure they are fitted because the manufacturers think we will be mystified by them and head for the dealership. The good news is that you can now get a penknife-style fold-out set of smaller Torx drivers for around a fiver at Homebase. Worth carrying along with the car's toolkit if you have a lot of these fasteners to deal with.

We fit them because, you can get a more reliable torque achieved in the factory (and they look nicer than "philips heads" too)

albionrovers

andygb wrote: »

I had one of the old E34 5 series, and changing bulbs etc was dead easy.

+1. And i've had 2 x E39s, ditto. I now want another one but they're getting a bit thin on the ground to find a decent one in Scotland?

BeenThroughItAll

albionrovers wrote: »

+1. And i've had 2 x E39s, ditto. I now want another one but they're getting a bit thin on the ground to find a decent one in Scotland?

I've had two E39 528is. Lovely things. Sorry to say I exported one from Scotland to England about five years ago

I too wouldn't mind another one. Probably a 540i this time or an M5, but they're getting a bit thin on the ground to find a decent one anywhere.

Strider590

Richard53 wrote: »

All this talk of 'torque screws' ... do we mean Torx screws, the ones with six little splines?

I'm sure they are fitted because the manufacturers think we will be mystified by them and head for the dealership. The good news is that you can now get a penknife-style fold-out set of smaller Torx drivers for around a fiver at Homebase. Worth carrying along with the car's toolkit if you have a lot of these fasteners to deal with.

There are also two types of torx screws, the simple/normal type and then the security type with the pin in the centre.

Richard53

Prothet_of_Doom wrote: »

We fit them because, you can get a more reliable torque achieved in the factory (and they look nicer than "philips heads" too)

I was thinking of Torx vs hex heads/Allen heads, rather than Phillips, but I take your point. I wondered if it was something to do with the automation of the build process. I have been told that Torx are better mechanically than hex, as they have less tendency to round off internally, and there is less of a cam-out effect. I've had two bikes that used Torx extensively (a BMW and a Triumph) and I can confirm that, once a bit of corrosion sets in, there is little difference. In fact, in a position where corrosion is severe (chain guard etc), a Torx screw is about as good as a cross-head, i.e. not very good at all. Give me a decent socket head every time.

Strider590 wrote: »

There are also two types of torx screws, the simple/normal type and then the security type with the pin in the centre.

Thank heavens that bike makers only use the security type for nickable stuff like tank badges. Once I got the Triumph, I went and bought a set of Draper Torx bits, a set of Torx T-handles (from Lidl, excellent) and a penknife-type fold-out set of small Torx drivers. I wouldn't want to do it all over again for the same with little hollows in the middle. I will buy those individually as I need them.

My Ford has Torx fasteners for a lot of the suspension and chassis stuff. It's stuff that the 'average' owner won't touch, and I have always assumed that it is there to make the less-committed DIYer to head for a dealership rather then tackle a job him/herself. There are some huge fasteners in there, and I can well believe that they will take a bigger torque setting than a hex socket or hex bolt.

Soulforged

i've had to change the bulbs in a mates KA once before, he couldnt do it as he thought he had to take the wheel off, but !!!!!! that, just wedged my hand in there and just about managed to do, and i've got ham hands.

just as bad is my civic, the dipped and the high beams are fine to get to, but the dipped beams, crikey, passenger side, not too bad, just a bit of a squeeze, but the drivers side, unless you have the hands of a child...you have to take out the expansion tank for the coolant, it's crazy. i'm looking to change the indicator and fog light bulbs soon, that's going to be a nightmare, think i'll have to go through the rear of the bumper from the wheel well.

andydiysaver

I'm lucky in as much as I've got a bunch of those torx screwdrivers, so I wasn't held up in that regard- can see how people would be though. Mind you, I did an aftermarket job on a focus to get some sound to the back the other year - that gets REALLY interesting, then it's not torx screw heads it's RIVETS


I agree ford Ka's are made for female market, but I don't agree a female hand will do any better cause what you gain on lack of bulk you then lose in shortness of fingers- only guy I'd confidently say could change a lightbulb and just the lightbulb,without removing anything else, is Edward Scissorhands.


when you're inside these things on any job one thing is common you see the lack of care and regard. In any other market that would come back to bite the manufacturer - even in the car market of years gone by - look at skoda then and look at skoda now... but I think we've got a lot of garages, a lot of car makers and a lot of champagne lunches. My next car will be a well made, straight forward honest buy for the money and won't involve ridiculous bespoke nuts and bolts and inaccessible areas for the simplest of jobs


...and then the bird say Halfords do a change service for the sunny side of a tenner. And I thought my job was bad! I've really got to stop moaning now haven't I and either get on with it or hand the "experts" at Halfords the change in my pocket ...... then again. I've heard Halfords manhandle cars a bit, they must have to turn it around quick and unbelievably changing a lighbulb the very basest standard of qualification to be a man, is not actually a quick job..........