parking fines on a freehold property i own

pupfiction

In a similar vein to a previous poster krryd9 "PCN on my own land" (as a new member i cant post the link)

I too have had 3 parking charges notices, final demands and now threats of county court action for people parking on my own land, 1 for my partner and 2 for my builders, both of whom had permission to park in my space.

I have not signed any contract with the PPC, one of our management company members did. He did not get my formal consent because I do not own a car but he asked my partner who does not own the land but does have a car.

This is the letter I am about to send to the PPC regarding my builders parking charge, it might be of use to others in a similar situation. Happy for any comments/amendments before I send it off

Thanks for all the different threads that helped me put the letter together

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Your References:XXXXXX & XXXXXX
Reg No: XXXXX

Dear Sir or Madam

This letter is to inform you that any liability to pay the parking charges you request is refuted and I request immediate cancellation.

I am one of the legal owners of the freehold property and the allocated parking space in question. It is clearly stated in my title deeds that I “may park one private motor vehicle in the area designated” and further in the Lease I am granted the permission “To park one private motor vehicle on the grounds subject to availability”. I am also a shareholder in “XXXX Management Ltd”, the management company for the land, Company Number XXXXX. The land registry map clearly shows that my parking area is clearly within the boundary I own.

The vehicle with the registration number XXXXXX was parked in my parking place with my permission on both of the dates relating to your charges. Therefore no trespassing took place. Also, I have not incurred any losses as there are never any charges to anyone parking in my space so there is no loss to myself. XXX PPC do not hold any proprietary interest in the land in question and are therefore unable to make any further third party demands of this nature.

I look forward to receiving confirmation of cancellation in the very near future

Yours sincerely

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again thanks for all the useful information and any comments welcome

The_Slithy_Tove

You say you own the freehold and then go on to talk about a lease. Something not right there.

Is it the case that the property (and the parking space that comes with it) is leasehold, and the freehold of the development is owned by a company of which you (and all the other residents) are shareholders?

And if you are a shareholder of the management company, how come you allowed them to bring in a scamming parking company. Or again is it the case that the freehold-owning company contracts a management company to do the day-to-day management.

Either way, you are ultimately the landholder, so you can tell the parking company where to shove it. If you want to cause trouble, stop displaying any permits, collect a ticket a day, appeal each one to POPLA, costing them £27 a time. They'll soon get the message.

Better still, get the parking company thrown out. If you do have a stake in the freehold or management company, surely you have some sway.

Ultimately, there's this approach I always link to in such cases. Read and be inspired: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKCPS-liable-for-trespass

Guys_Dad

It looks like OP owns the property but the parking area is owned by a different freeholder (XXX Management Ltd).

This would make sense as when it needs re-surfacing, all the parking spaces would be done rather than bit by biyt and there should be funds available from any service charge or sinking fund, unless they would charge householders at that time.

Do you pay any service charge for the space?

All irrelevant for the matter in hand as you will win on GPEOL, probably signage and even valid contract.

If you are a shareholder in the company, you should have 2 documents - the company articles and any operating t&c for residents.

pupfiction

thanks for your reply

originally the owners of the flats were lease holders then they banded together took over the freehold before i bought the property, so we now have both from what it says in the details from my solicitor. I will be bringing it up at the next management meeting regarding this so called contract and suggest we do not carry it on after the 12 months is up

yes i do pay a management fee monthly which we decide between us each year of how much

i have just noticed on the 2 threats to take my builder to court that one of the witness statements is signed by Wayne Hargreaves and the other is signed by Brian Hargreaves, the signatures look very similar....

Stroma

It's your builder who should be appealing this, and going to popla on rejection. That letter should be written by you so it can be used by him.

I can't believe that you have let these idiots to infest the car parking area, understand something here, the only way that these companies can make money is by going after the legitimate users of the place. There is not enough abusive parkers to keep even one of these companies in business.

pupfiction

Stroma wrote: »

It's your builder who should be appealing this, and going to popla on rejection. That letter should be written by you so it can be used by him.

I can't believe that you have let these idiots to infest the car parking area, understand something here, the only way that these companies can make money is by going after the legitimate users of the place. There is not enough abusive parkers to keep even one of these companies in business.

thanks for your reply but as i said i did not give consent to this and one of our management committee arranged the agreement, who like me does not own a car but he is ... lets just say, a bit protective and unforgiving, not on MY land kinda guy.

Our house is opposite a school and lots of people did park in our private parking spaces but i think there is a better way of dealing with it... by just putting up "private parking" signs which i will bring up at our next management meeting.

I would welcome any alternative ideas to stop random people parking in our bays that works... but does not involve a PPC, that i can present to the management company meeting?

thanks in advance

Stroma

We can't really say what is your best strategy in this as we don't know the lay of the land, so let me just out line some for you

1) A chain with lock
2) parking posts
3) barrier system
4) signs saying private parking

and so on, it takes investment, depending on which course of action depends on price, if you value your space, then protect it.

Coupon-mad

pupfiction wrote: »

thanks for your reply

originally the owners of the flats were lease holders then they banded together took over the freehold before i bought the property, so we now have both from what it says in the details from my solicitor. I will be bringing it up at the next management meeting regarding this so called contract and suggest we do not carry it on after the 12 months is up

yes i do pay a management fee monthly which we decide between us each year of how much

i have just noticed on the 2 threats to take my builder to court that one of the witness statements is signed by Wayne Hargreaves and the other is signed by Brian Hargreaves, the signatures look very similar....

Hohohoho! It's joke PPC of the year, ANPR Ltd. Why the heck of hecks did any idiot take them on?! What on earth possessed the management to allow this deluded lot near your cars? Does the person who contracted them on your land have no internet search facilities?!

You only have to search pepipoo forum for the keyword 'Trev' and then try another search there 'Hargreaves' to see these chancers for what they really are. Use the search box bottom left on this forum. Happy reading:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

We also have threads on here about them but pepipoo has a lot more. This is ANPR Ltd who used to be National Clamps before the government took their toys away. Owned by Trevor Whitehouse who also has telly appearance 'claims to fame' that he actually seems to be proud of, on their silly website.

You will be laughing all weekend when you read about this bunch and their very close family of friends, 'H&S litigation' aka the Hargreaves crew. A poster on pepipoo has said he will show his bits in John Lewis' window if an ANPR Ltd case actually goes to a hearing!

They are not worthy of such a polite letter. You and the builders are best complaining as registered keepers (not as drivers) about them to the BPA Ltd, because the Notices you've had are bound to be non-compliant and so are the signs because they tell lies. Have you actually read what the sign says? Have a look and think about whether it's true...