UTR Issuing - Backlog?

John_Pierpoint

Word of warning:

If you apply for a UTR and access to the on-line system and there is something "wrong" with your application, HMRC will send you a two page standard email, offering you several possible reasons for rejecting your application.
You will miss this email in the Xmas rush of round robins etc, and also because "HMRC never communicate with tax payers by email because email is not secure".

You are then between the devil and the deep blue sea and on the stairway to hell.

Well that was a few years ago, perhaps systems have been improved since then.

Make-it-3

If HMRC were going to email to reject my OH's application I'd like to think that they wouldn't wait 4 months to do so.

Anyway he's going to call tomorrow morning when hopefully its quieter and see where things stand. I will update ....

Make-it-3

Well he called this morning and spoke to some uninformed idiot.

As with Gambler, not interested with the reference number from the registration email. Admitted nothing had been issued, but said not to re-apply online (I wonder if the online system has broken down??).

Apparently someone from the tax office will call him in the next 4 weeks and register him over the phone. We're not holding our breath on that.

He did say that if the UTR is not issued in time then they will extend the filing deadline. So looks like they are already admitting that they won't be able to cope with all the new people having to register due to child benefit.

Rochdale_Pioneers

Sounds like fun! I saw the "register for self assessment" posters back in October and decided to ring HMRC as I knew my 12/13 income was borderline for child benefit charging. Advisor ran me through it, told me not to register as I wasn't affected. Then I get a letter last week saying I need to register or get fined so I ring again. This advisor tells me I am affected (just) and need to register.

So, I ask them to send copies of all my paperwork (lost by HMRC earlier in the year when they asked me to send originals of P45/60/11D on a separate matter) and go online earlier today to fill out the forms. ”Please allow 6-8 weeks for your code" says my auto-response email, which does of course go past the payment deadline.

I can prove that I spoke to HMRC as I have a dated letter from them referring to our conversation. I have my dated "thanks for applying for self assessment" email. They can collect my late payment fine from my cold dead hands! The last advisor I spoke to was apologetic for the utter confusion on the rules on this child benefit thing - something about it having been "rushed through".....

Rochdale_Pioneers

Make-it-3 wrote: »

If HMRC were going to email to reject my OH's application I'd like to think that they wouldn't wait 4 months to do so.

Why not? I wanted a tax refund on business miles. Never having done it before I rang HMRC who told me what I needed to fill in, not to send any supporting evidence as it wasn't required, and to expect a cheque in 3 weeks.

3 months later I receive a letter demanding the kind of evidence I had been explicitly told not to send, along with a booklet about what to do if your claim is fraudulent. So I ring again, this time to the audit team asking for info. Chap tells me what to write what to send and where to.

4 weeks later they write again refusing my claim due to my nonexistent company car. Ring again, they confirm I don't have one, suggest I send all my end of year paperwork (P60/11D) to clear it up.

4 weeks later another letter thanking me for my previous letter asking that I send my paperwork - the paperwork I sent with that letter. I ring up, get someone with a brain who instructs the audit team to cease and desist, and the cheque gets issued.

I'm sure it keeps them entertained.

chrismac1

Personally I think the change was a political blunder as well as putting needless pressure on HMRC resources. In the real world it was hardly "rushed through" as it was announced over a year ago now. I admit that in HMRC land a year is seen as a decent period of time to answer a letter never mind deal with tax rule changes.

Several of my clients have heeded my advice and made personal pension payments to stay out of this farce. My advice for anyone caught up in HMRC incompetence is to at all times get and file - ideally on PDF - the evidence that you behaved as a "reasonable taxpayer" because ultimately this is the standard of care that you'll be judged on if the worst comes to the worst.

It's interesting that the usual manic defenders of HMRC have kept out of this thread. Perhaps that suggests at least a degree of embarrassment that HMRC can't even issue a 10-digit number within 8 weeks. Personally I always saw UTRs themselves as pretty stupid, given that every UK citizen over the age of 16 already has a unique identification number, called a National Insurance number.

However, having forced everyone into the SA number route the least HMRC can do is issue the things within a reasonable timeframe, which is 48 hours and not 6 to 8 weeks.

Rochdale_Pioneers

I have an email on email. Why would I need it as a pdf?

Gas_Powered_Toothbrush

chrismac1 wrote: »

Personally I always saw UTRs themselves as pretty stupid, given that every UK citizen over the age of 16 already has a unique identification number, called a National Insurance number.

And partnerships? Do they have a national insurance number?

Think, THEN type.

Gas_Powered_Toothbrush

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

I have an email on email. Why would I need it as a pdf?

You don't, it's just chrismac1 being a fool. I wouldn't worry, it happens a lot.

John_Pierpoint

chrismac1 wrote: »

Personally I always saw UTRs themselves as pretty stupid, given that every UK citizen over the age of 16 already has a unique identification number, called a National Insurance number.
.

You wish!
Lets be fair to HMRC and the "not invented here" nature of the social security number.
I cannot quote you the figures but the NINO displays all the features of Topsie - it just grew. I used to think that the letter on the end was modulus 11 check digit, to protect against the transposition of numbers: silly me. Did that idea get used before VAT registration?

I personally know of someone with two NINO's and someone else who discovered that they were sharing their number with someone else. We used to joke that perhaps the doppelgänger was earning a bigger pension for my friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identification_number

Even the GB VAT number looks to be in a bit of a muddle:
Q11 : Is it possible to know the algorithms used by Member States in the construction of their VAT identification numbers?

The European Commission cannot divulge these algorithms. However, the structure of VAT identification numbers is given in the table below.

VAT identification number structure: Member State Structure Format*
AT-Austria ATU99999999 1 block of 9 characters
BE-Belgium BE0999999999 1 block of 10 digits
BG-Bulgaria BG999999999 or
BG9999999999 1 block of 9 digits or1 block of 10 digits
CY-Cyprus CY99999999L 1 block of 9 characters
CZ-Czech Republic CZ99999999 or
CZ999999999 or
CZ9999999999 1 block of either 8, 9 or 10 digits
DE-Germany DE999999999 1 block of 9 digits
DK-Denmark DK99 99 99 99 4 blocks of 2 digits
EE-Estonia EE999999999 1 block of 9 digits
EL-Greece EL999999999 1 block of 9 digits
ES-Spain ESX9999999X4 1 block of 9 characters
FI-Finland FI99999999 1 block of 8 digits
FR-France FRXX 999999999 1 block of 2 characters, 1 block of 9 digits
GB-United Kingdom GB999 9999 99 or
GB999 9999 99 9995 or
GBGD9996 or
GBHA9997 1 block of 3 digits, 1 block of 4 digits and
1 block of 2 digits;
or the above followed by a block of 3 digits;
or 1 block of 5 characters
HR-Croatia HR99999999999 1 block of 11 digits
HU-Hungary HU99999999 1 block of 8 digits
IE-Ireland IE9S99999L or IE9999999WI 1 block of 8 or 1 block of 9 characters
IT-Italy IT99999999999 1 block of 11 digits
LT-Lithuania LT999999999 or LT999999999999 1 block of 9 or 1 block of 12 digits LU-Luxembourg LU99999999 1 block of 8 digits
LV-Latvia LV99999999999 1 block of 11 digits
MT-Malta MT99999999 1 block of 8 digits
NL-The Netherlands NL999999999B998 1 block of 12 characters
PL-Poland PL9999999999 1 block of 10 digits
PT-Portugal PT999999999 1 block of 9 digits
RO-Romania RO999999999 1 block of minimum 2 digits and maximum 10 digits SE-Sweden SE999999999999 1 block of 12 digits
SI-Slovenia SI99999999 1 block of 8 digits
SK-Slovakia SK9999999999 1 block of 10 digits

Remarks:

*: Format excludes 2 letter alpha prefix
9: A digit
X: A letter or a digit
S: A letter; a digit; "+" or "*"
L: A letter

Notes:

1: The 1st position following the prefix is always "U".
2: The first digit following the prefix is always zero ('0').
3: The (new) 10-digit format is the result of adding a leading zero to the (old) 9-digit format.
4: The first and last characters may be alpha or numeric; but they may not both be numeric.
5: Identifies branch traders.
6: Identifies Government Departments.
7: Identifies Health Authorities.
8: The 10th position following the prefix is always "B". .