Advice required on PCN - excessive charge?

JackB89

Cheers, much appreciated.

Will keep browsing the sites when I have time, and report back if/when we receive a NtK - should be sometime between December 30th and January 26th.

Speak then!

JackB89

Hi everyone! Hope you all had a good Christmas!

Unfortunately, I received a Notice to Keeper through the post today (well, my dad did). It's not from MB, but Parking Collection Services - who from what I can work out are Debt Recovery Plus trading under a different name.

I have read all the various forums and info etc but wanted to go through a few things:

1. It states on the 'newbies' page that "if a PCN does not mention POFA 2012 then the PPC can only pursue the driver". My original windscreen PCN had no mention of POFA 2012, however I have read through Schedule 4 and can find NO mention of any information stating that a PCN (i.e. my windscreen ticket) has to mention this. Could somebody please point me in the right direction of where there is written.

2. As Parking Collection Services have sent me the NtK rather than Minster Baywatch, do I need to reply to them? Or back to Minster Baywatch directly?

3. The original PCN charge was £60. PCS have asked for £115!!!!!! Surely this is not allowed!!!!!?

Your help would be much appreciated.

Stroma

Does the NtK mention keeper liability ? Or that terms and conditions were breached, or words to that effect ?

JackB89

Stroma wrote: »

Does the NtK mention keeper liability ? Or that terms and conditions were breached, or words to that effect ?

They are asking the keeper to either pay the charge (which has now risen to £115) or notify them who the driver is.

They then say that if the keeper does not provide details of the driver within 28 days, he becomes liable under the full terms of schedule 4 of the POFA 2012.

It says that the vehicle was involved in breaching the terms and conditions of parking.

HO87

JackB89 wrote: »

Hi everyone! Hope you all had a good Christmas!

Unfortunately, I received a Notice to Keeper through the post today (well, my dad did). It's not from MB, but Parking Collection Services - who from what I can work out are Debt Recovery Plus trading under a different name.

I have read all the various forums and info etc but wanted to go through a few things:

1. It states on the 'newbies' page that "if a PCN does not mention POFA 2012 then the PPC can only pursue the driver". My original windscreen PCN had no mention of POFA 2012, however I have read through Schedule 4 and can find NO mention of any information stating that a PCN (i.e. my windscreen ticket) has to mention this. Could somebody please point me in the right direction of where there is written.

2. As Parking Collection Services have sent me the NtK rather than Minster Baywatch, do I need to reply to them? Or back to Minster Baywatch directly?

3. The original PCN charge was £60. PCS have asked for £115!!!!!! Surely this is not allowed!!!!!?

Your help would be much appreciated.

You are correct PCS are just DR+ in disguise.

Are you able to work out how long it has been since the PCN was put on the windscreen and the NtK arrived - counting the day after the PCN was issued as Day 1?

The governing legislation - as far as the ability of PPC's to pursue the registered keeper for the PCN is concerned - is Schedule 4 Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 - "POFA". This sets out very clearly what a windscreen PCN (what they call a Notice to Driver) and a Notice to Keeper must contain and how and when they should be served. It has yet to be established how a secondary company (PCS, in this case) can become "the creditor" for the purposes of POFA but that is somewhat small beer because we have yet to see a fully compliant NtD or NtK and in any event, as far as a PPC is concerned, they must comply with all of it.

The fact that the PCN does not specifically use the words "Protection of Freedoms Act" is not fatal of itself it is rather more critical that it contains all of the required data.

I am of the view, regardless of who issued the PCN, that you should make your appeal (as the registered keeper) to PCS. They have set themselves up as the creditor, for the moment, and have issued the NtK so they can deal with the appeal. I'd be very interested to see how they cope with it.

JackB89

Yes I've worked the dates out - they've complied with that - today is Day 52.

I'll re-read Schedule 4 and see if they have followed the rules properly with both the PCN (which is also known as an NtD?) and NtK. You're of the opinion that it's almost certain that they haven't?

I also have the fact that the original PCN did not offer a 40% discount for prompt payment as per BPA AOS rules.

Plus of course that demanding £115 for non-payment of 50p is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss!

Coupon-mad

I will eat my hat if Minster Baywatch and PCS documents comply with POFA 2012!

In fact you can easily tell from the wording - you only have to compare it to the link to POFA2012 which I posted in the 'Private Parking Ticket? NEWBIES read this first!' sticky thread. Also I have noticed before that PCS' version that 'attempts' to involve POFA 2012 is usually headed up 'Notice to Keeper' whereas the version where they can't be arsed to even try to follow POFA 2012 is called a Notice to Owner. However both are non compliant!

There are LOADS of forum threads about PCS drivel NTKs (or NTOs), look, here's one from pepipoo:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=80531

Includes a great letter from Broadsword (except in your case there was a windscreen ticket so the 14 day rule doesn't apply to your one).