E7 - % threshold for switching away - has it changed?

bettybadger

Hi,
Moved into a house with E7 last Jan. Main reasons for E7 were/are immersion heater for hot water and one storage heater in the bathroom.
When I found out how much the storage heater was costing a month, I switched it off (fan heater occasionally will do for now). We use the immersion heater 6-8 months of the year (in winter the water is heated by the SF aga). CH is run on oil.
I've monitored our usage for a bit and now we only use about 20% of our electricity at night (3 units compared to 12 in the day). I'd understood that that would mean it would be more economical to switch away from E7 as most websites seem to suggest min usage of 40% at night.
However, on doing a few quotes it seems I am still better off with E7 (only about £20 a year but still...). In fact, twiddling with the numbers I could go down to just over 14% with OVO and E7 is still better.
Have I done my sums wrong? If I need to change my meter I need to find a company that will do it for free. Otherwise, I can just choose a different supplier. Don't want to mess this up as it could be a costly mistake!
Thanks in advance for any help.
(P.S. Another reason for sticking with E7 for now is that we'd have to pay to have immersion heater re-wired - according to Southern Electric who we're currently with)

EnergyEric

20-25% would be your target percentage of night-time energy if you have Economy7.

My advice is to ditch the storage heaters if you can do without. Particularly if you have other forms of heating.

Then you can ditch Economy7, stop paying the premium on your day-time rates and use less energy overall because your storage heater is no longer sucking up 15-30 units of electricity every night it's on.

The only concern would be the immersion heater as this will now be heated with standard-rate electricity. They can have a bad effect on bills if you don't control their usage to just what you need. Make sure it's timed properly and don't take full baths every day and it shouldn't be too expensive.

Ask Southern Electric again about the private re-wiring costs. I see no need for extra work other than a simple meter-exchange. The immersion should work just fine in my opinion.

Nada666

But the OP is saying with the storage off they are still paying less on E7.

This is possible - if you were all-electric but still E7 without storage heaters then you would be in trouble. But if you have gas heating and gas cooking but electric hot water you can still squeeze enough through on E7. If you aren't planning to give all your children plasmas and PSBoxes in their bedrooms or take half-hour electric showers twice a day then it is doable.

But the sums can be awkward and tight - are you comparing the full range of tariffs on the comparison sites when looking at the single rate costs? Are you checking electricity-only results and not just dual fuel? Are you seeing the full range of suppliers (not choosing 'just show me tariffs comparison site can switch me to')?

G_M

and can you not heat the hot water via the oil boiler? If you are running the boiler anyway for central heating, then using that instead of the emmersion would be cheaper

My mum's situation is similar. I've just discovered she's been on econ 7 for 15 years! No storage heaters (gas ch), no emmersion (gas boiler)!

She's on a SE fix (8), and they've offered to remove the meter and install a single rate meter.

On Price Fix 8, this would increase her (minimal)night time rate from 6.69 to 12.77 (double) and reduce the day time slightly from 15.34 to 12.77

How does one calculate the threshold % usage?

Richie-from-the-Boro

most websites seem to suggest min usage of 40% at night.

- not true it varies by supplier for example the cheapest would be SP @ 15% and highest would be BG @ 45%

about 20% of our electricity at night

- is a respectably low %, many would envy that figure

Have I done my sums wrong

- no

one storage heater in the bathroom

- a luxury rather than necessity, your fan or better still an IPX4 panel heater on as as when basis is better
- the best utilisation is to relocate and rewire [cheap] this small storage heater into your living area

We use the immersion heater 6-8 months of the year

- that's 75% of the year at cheap rate, move that to core rate pricing and it will cost much more than the £20 you pre-suppose

NOTE : nPower, SSE, Co-op, Ebico, Eon are about 35%. They vary by region and consumption the higher the consumtion the lower the tariff.

Cardew

bettybadger wrote: »

and one storage heater in the bathroom.
When I found out how much the storage heater was costing a month, I switched it off (fan heater occasionally will do for now))

I have gas CH but still have E7 and use about 25% on off-peak with SP. At that percentage I am slightly 'in pocket' with E7. The main factor with E7 is how early you get up in morning - and it helps to have the changeover clock about 30 mins slow.

Should mention the dangers of fan heater in bathroom!

http://www.esc.org.uk/public/safety-in-the-home/bathroom-safety/

bettybadger

Thanks for your replies.

@EnergyEric - I think you're probably right about the immersion heater as it is run using a timer dial and I am able to 'boost' during the day if I need to - that would suggest it's not on the same kind of system as the storage heater.

@Nada666 – I think that is probably the question I should have asked - am I seeing the full range of tariffs? I have run comparisons both for E7 and standard but is that enough? The rates I've been offered (incl VAT) are: OVO - standing charge £89.25 a year (24.45p/day) for both tariffs, 12.348p/kwh standard or 13.1775p day & 7.329p night. For SP it was 34.25p/day standing charge both tariffs, 11.946p/kwh standard or 13.375p day & 6.009p night. Are the standard tariffs I'm being offered quite high?

@Richie - Have just checked rates with Southern Electric (current supplier) and with them I would be better off on standard as opposed to E7 but it’s still more expensive than OVO or SP on E7. (14.79p/day standing charge, 13.08p/kwh). So yes, the % does vary quite a bit according to supplier – 33% and above at night to make it worth it with them as you said.

Storage heater is an old Creda one - would not want to put it anywhere else in the house (13units p/night!). The fan heater will do till we can afford a proper replacement (drop in a radiator from CH system or an efficient electric heater for ad hoc use) – I don’t really like using the fan heater in the bathroom (for safety reasons Cardew mentions) but it is 2m from the bath and basin and is plugged into a socket in the hallway.

The immersion heater doesn’t seem to use much electricity – only seem to be using 1 unit per night less now I’ve switched it off – can that be right? (We’ve left it on previous owners’ setting: 4 hours at night / 1.5 in day – could probably adjust this & still have enough hot water). Maybe I should be asking how we’re managing to use 2 or 3 units a night when we’re all asleep – is that quite high for background stuff like fridge/freezer, clocks, phone charging etc + dehumidifier? Maybe the timer is a bit out…..

@G_M Would oil really be cheaper than electricity to heat the water? Bearing in mind it’s to heat the water in the warmer months when we’re not using the central heating (as much).

If the OVO figures sound good then I think we’ll just stay on E7 and switch to them for now. I’ll keep monitoring and see if I can cut down usage anywhere else & get new quotes next year.

bettybadger

P.S. Biggest danger of fan heater seems to be if it's left on accidentally. Unbeknownst to us, our 5 year-old switched it on yesterday evening and my husband found it still on this morning :O He has been given strict instructions never to touch it again!!!

macman

Yes, oil is cheaper than peak rate E7 electricity.
And, regardless of where your fan heater is plugged in and postioned, running it on a trailing flex into a bathroom is potentially lethal, even more so with children switching it on and off.

bettybadger

Thanks Macman - if we do come off E7, we'll have to monitor how much exactly the immersion is costing us and how much it would be to hook up the oil boiler to the water tank. Another reason to stick to E7 for now.
As to the fan heater, I'd swear DH dismissed my fears a few weeks ago but he's vehemently denying this. I'd better start a new thread on cheap, temporary alternative solutions.... For now, it's unplugged as the 3 year-old just proved he knows how to switch it on too.

macman

You can have a wall mounted fan heater in the bathroom controlled by a pull cord switch.