4 Way Joint Mortgage - Want out! So upset...

beefcasserole

Can anyone please offer advice for our situation?

Parties involved:
Mother - 1 credit card - 1 loan
Father - 1 credit card - 1 loan - 1 car on PCP
Sister - numerous cards - 4 properties rented out - ltd company - loans
My Husband- wants off mortgage

Situation is:
Husband bought house with parents and sister 7 years ago for 425,000.

Met me after 1 year and then after a year of being together, decided we wanted our own privacy to have a 'proper' relationship after family dispute.

He asked them to remove his name from the mortgage or sell the house because the situation was no longer suitable. - (His Sister had also began a relationship and was pregnant and they lived within the confines of her bedroom).

They refused to sell and said they'd still pay the mortgage.

A year later (3 years in total from the date of purchase, 2 years since we'd moved out) We'd got married and I found out I was pregnant and we went down asking them to sell because we needed to buy our own house and had saved a deposit in the interests of our child. The area where we lived was terrible and this was a council flat with needles lying in the close etc. We had to move.

We returned again and asked them to sell or remove his name. They asked if we could wait 3 more years till they sorted out their financials and could afford to have him removed from the mortgage, taking on the additional responsibility from the lenders.
So we agreed, left and moved into our own private rental.

Since then we were able to secure our own home through a financial adviser who the family used for their affairs which we later discovered was only because he told the lender he was in the process of being removed from the family mortgage. Luckily they haven't checked this and we have been here for a few years.

It has now been 7 years from the date of purchase, 5 years since we moved out and I am pregnant with our second child.

The mortgage was changed to interest-only when we moved out and currently stands at 403,500.

The only debt we have is a car on PCP and our own mortgage.

We asked them to release his name or sell the house. They said they weren't going to discuss it any further and if he wanted to come off the mortgage to deal with it himself because they wouldn't help him. They said they all wanted out of the house because they could no longer afford the £1650 a month interest only payment but couldn't afford to repair the house back to a sale-able standard.

The property has rats which ate through electrical wires which are needing repaired up through walls in the kitchen, there is a base unit out in the kitchen and the bathrooms are needing repaired i.e. missing toilet seats and dampness behind tiles into the walls. The house is very tired and is full of furniture which the sister stores in case she may need it for one of her rentals. Old, tired furniture which by no means matches the kind of house it's in. It looks like a hoarders house. There is an old wrecked caravan outside along with two dismounted shells of cars, type one as a base for the driveway/ half finished mono block. The interior is diabolical and the curtains etc are missing from some windows - or only reach half the length of a full length window.

We sent them a letter from our lawyer asking them if they would accept 450,000 to be "bought out" and release the house to my Husband as they are unable to secure the lending due to defaulting on a credit agreement and landing an equivalent of a CCJ, and purchasing another property behind my Husbands back for 215,000. - This property was purchased fraudulently because the turnover of the company was put through as the sisters income?!?

We received a letter back saying they accepted the offer and proposed January as an entry date.

We replied stating that 8 weeks for an entry date was unrealistic as we had to sell our house first which in this area is around 2 weeks. Missives etc totals to around 3 months.

We were mainly looking for an indication on what they wanted to do.

Last month they never paid the mortgage and we received an alert from credit expert. We called the sister and she went completely ballistic stating she had changed banks and he had no right to ask about the mortgage payments since he doesn't contribute.

He said the whole point in him coming off the mortgage was to prevent them from damaging our finances which it now has.

Yesterday we received a text stating she was no longer paying the mortgage and we were to start paying it or the house would be repossessed. We said we are not paying because they agreed to pay it and they live there.

We understand the whole joint and severally liability aspect but we went to see our lawyer for advice.

Lawyer said not to pay it if we could handle the impact on the credit rating because the court would see that there was obviously an agreement whether it was documented or not because the fact it there has not been any kind of issue raised in the past 5 years my husband has not been living there regarding no contributions to the mortgage. He said it may be worth leaving it to see if they start paying it in case they are testing the waters to try and make us pay it for our credit rating.

Financial Adviser said to pay it.

All other advice said to pay it, sell our house and move in there to play them at their own game.

NOTE: My Husband can't let it get repossessed because he needs to get a visa for his work regularly and would lose his job because the visa would be refused with a repossession or bankruptcy.

It does effectively mean we're paying the mortgage and they are living there for nothing and then they could stop paying the rest of the bills - which we'd then need to pay for.

A:
Do we pay it (£1650 a month) and continue to pay for and live in our own mortgaged house (£430 a month) and get a court order to sell?

B:
Do we sell and move in and pay the mortgage/ cause hell/ get court order to sell?

C:
What other option do we have?

We will need to make the payment on Monday if they don't pay.
We are considering not paying it and letting them believe it will get repossessed to try and trigger them paying it in panic.

This stress is no good for my Husband working away for 5 weeks at a time and myself being pregnant looking after a small child.

I'm really concerned this is going to ruin our lives and trying to not let the hate feel overwhelming!!!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Dozey_crow

Sorry to read of this awful situation. It must be awful for you both.

I don't know much about mortgages but as I was reading I wondered if he could 'gift' his share to the other three. As it needs so much work it occurs to me that this may be the cheaper option. As I say I'm not in a position of knowledge so sorry if this idea is way off.

Sending you my best wishes

Pixie5740

How big is the mortgage if the interest only payments are £1650 a month? If you do start paying the mortgage then you'll probably end up paying it for the rest of the term and you'd then have to stump up the capital. I'd go with what your solicitor says as I have no legal experience whatsoever. Good luck.

beefcasserole

Thanks for the replies.

It did say in there that they refuse to remortgage because they won't be able to afford it and thus it's a waste of time.

Reply to the other question:

The mortgage is standing at 403,186 over 25 years interest only, starting from 2008.

It would be valued at approx £480k on a home report because the damage is hidden apart from the kitchen and amount of junk in it hides the damage.

They would likely get £400k on the open market which would clear the mortgage.

barbarawright

If it is interest only, how are they planning to repay the capital?

beefcasserole

That's just it barbara - they aren't planning anything.

They are now leaving the whole thing to my Husband.

They've decided they aren't paying it anymore.

bryanb

barbarawright wrote: »

If it is interest only, how are they planning to repay the capital?

I think they're planning on the OP paying it.

regprentice

I agree fully with your solicitor.

- they have stopped paying because you have indicated your intention to take the mortgage on. From their perspective why sink any more cash into it. If you have changed your mind you should communicate this asap.

- you are hoping to move back in and sell your own house... you will be on your own for weeks on end while your husband works overseas. For years... How do you feel about that. The property does appear two be infested with more than one kind of vermin.....

- i dont see why a non bankrupt repossesion would prevent a visa per se. With employer sponsership you may be ok? I think this is your second most important issue to resolve.

- its been suggested the capital appreciation over time will put you in a 'profit position' and you can all buy cash out without a loss. I think this unlikley as the property falls into disrepair. Poor wiring is a significant risk. Are you certain it is adequately insured and that insurance in place.

as a couple you need to be agreed on what to do then proceed urgently. It doesnt appear it will be an easy choice.

Not being cheeky.... how did you get the 2nd mortgage (with the possible liability to your husband of 400k on his first mortgage). Is it in your name alone.... perhaps it should be if voluntarily bankrupting your husband in the future is a serious possibility

beefcasserole

I agree fully with your solicitor.

- they have stopped paying because you have indicated your intention to take the mortgage on. From their perspective why sink any more cash into it. If you have changed your mind you should communicate this asap.

We have not changed our minds - the family have changed their minds about us buying them out and decided not to pay it - and not to tell us they wouldn't be paying it. The sister sent a text saying "well you are the one with the credit report to worry about, so it's not my problem, you pay it."

We calculated what the payments would've been for a 1/4 share for my Husband of £1600 a month for the 5 years he has not lived there and this calculates to £24,000.

The property is not likely to achieve more than £400k on the open market so we are therefore effectively doing them a favour by giving them £450k.

We don't want the house but we would rather buy it and have them out so that we can be financially disconnected to them as soon as possible. The house itself is an 8 bedroom/ 5 bathroom/ 4 public rooms/ 2 kitchens/ 1 utility/ double garage approx 1 acre ground.

For a family of 4 that's far too much but so is not being able to own our own home and be in constant worry of losing our own home due to their own financial greed.

We planned to keep it and repair it ….for at least 15 years and try to review then in different times.

- you are hoping to move back in and sell your own house... you will be on your own for weeks on end while your husband works overseas. For years... How do you feel about that. The property does appear two be infested with more than one kind of vermin…..

[COLOR="rgb(46, 139, 87)"] I just don't want to be paying for their mortgage which is effectively rent and them take the utter !!!! out of my Husband. I'm a strong person and it just means we won't be backing down. I would live![/COLOR]

- i dont see why a non bankrupt repossesion would prevent a visa per se. With employer sponsership you may be ok? I think this is your second most important issue to resolve.

[COLOR="rgb(46, 139, 87)"] It is part of my Husband's employment conditions as he employed by an overseas company that he must maintain his credit rating at all times avoiding any repossessions or bankruptcy.[/COLOR]

- its been suggested the capital appreciation over time will put you in a 'profit position' and you can all buy cash out without a loss. I think this unlikley as the property falls into disrepair. Poor wiring is a significant risk. Are you certain it is adequately insured and that insurance in place.

[COLOR="rgb(46, 139, 87)"] They own a nursery and are struggling for funds because they bought a house to turn into another nursery and the building work all went wrong - due to miscommunication on the sister's part with the builders no doubt - this landed her with a decree and the loan money (100k) for the building work has disappeared even though it was never paid to the builders! They are struggling for money and it is most definitely ilke a domino effect waiting to happen for them![/COLOR]

as a couple you need to be agreed on what to do then proceed urgently. It doesnt appear it will be an easy choice.

Not being cheeky.... how did you get the 2nd mortgage (with the possible liability to your husband of 400k on his first mortgage). Is it in your name alone.... perhaps it should be if voluntarily bankrupting your husband in the future is a serious possibility

[COLOR="rgb(46, 139, 87)"] We used the families "recommended" financial adviser at the time we got our mortgage. He told the company our mortgage is with that we were in the process of being removed from the 400k mortgage (which by the way we thought we were) and it just never happened. It is solely in my Husbands name as I was self-employed at the time. My Husband earns around £10k average after tax a month. I was also a high earner but sold my business of 6 years so that I could sack my Au Pair who was bringing up my Son during my 80+ hour working week - and be a Mummy to him myself before school begins in 2 years time and the time is gone - so no, unfortunately I cannot take over the mortgage on our own home, although a transfer of title may be an option - doubt the lender would agree.[/COLOR]

What annoys me the most is that we live well within our own means.

Our house is under £500 a month and the car finance is £600 a month - which was due to be paid off next year in June with a lump sum. Our total outgoings are in the region of £1800 which would've been significantly reduced to £1300 from an income of £10,000.

The mortgage we had agreed in principle before the missed payment was £1,680 per month repayment for £450,000. So a pretty reasonable payment, well within our means again, with the option over overpayments to clear it a lot sooner.

I hate the fact that we are so responsible with our money at the age of 25(myself) and 30(Husband) yet they are full of greed and are his sister (30's) and parents (60's).

It just goes to show how the young who learn to be responsible through hard work and having nothing to begin with, learn to appreciate the return.

Not all of us turn into green gremlins, dribbling at the sight of a dreamy executive lifestyle…..yuk.

Thrugelmir

Easy to say I know. Play hard ball with the family. The minute you start paying the mortgage then you'll be even further immersed.

Personally I would sit back and see how events unfold. Rather than trying to influence events. While repossession isn't your desired outcome. It maybe the way to actually break the deadlock.

Twiggy_34

I have absolutely no idea what the rights/wrongs or implications are of this, but is it worth your husband contacting the mortgage provider himself and making them aware of the situation? I'm thinking that if he was to make them aware of the threats from his sister, but explains his intentions to take responsibility for the whole mess if needed, maybe they can make some kind of provision for him with regard to giving him the opportunity to make sure the mortgage is not defaulted on in the event they do not make payment?

There is then the issue of getting them out if he starts making the mortgage payments, it sounds to me like they're the kind of people who will turn around and take advantage of having free accommodation and that it will later prove difficult to get them out as their names are on everything. IMO it would be very risky to do this without some kind of contractual arrangement in place.

Another question is, if they claim they're prepared to let your husband buy the property from them, why are they happy for this to happen but they're not happy it for it to be sold on the open market (another reason for having the doubts raised in the previous paragraph).

Getting rid of the property ASAP seems to me to be the most sensible option, wash your hands of them and the property altogether, albeit at a loss (I'm sure this is easier said than done, but if your solicitors were able to pin the depreciation in value on them and therefore make it so that your husband wasn't liable, then that would be great, but I'm thinking this is highly unlikely!).

I'm not sure how well this applies in this scenario but this article makes quite interesting reading, and it strikes me that the same rules should apply to the 4 people involved in this scenario as it would for an unmarried couple. Follow the link for more, but here's a small excerpt:

If a house is bought in joint names, it should be split accordingly on separation, and either party can force a sale of the property to realise their share. If the parties are contributing unequally to the purchase price, or to payments on the property, for example if he is paying 70% and she is paying 30%, this should be reflected in the amounts they take away with them.

If the property is in the sole name of one party, it remains that person's property on separation, unless the other party can establish that there was an intention that they would be entitled to a share in the property. Proving this can cause much stress, expense and frustration.

http://www.uknetguide.co.uk/Lifestyle_and_Leisure/Article/Rights_for_Unmarried_Couples-100230.html

Is it worth contacting citizens advice for additional advice and support?

Just one last thought, would they be open to negotiation on the subject of your husband taking ownership of the property and the associated mortgage but for them to rent it from him? Might be a win-win situation in the short term. They'd have to agree to sign everything together (paperwork handing mortgage & property over to him and a tenancy agreement in all their names). Obviously this does open a new can of worms though with regard to buy to let mortgages etc, but nevertheless thought it was something worth putting out there!