Two German Sheps?

missewan

Hi all,

My sister in law and I both bought german shepherd puppies from the same litter 8 months ago. I have a white boy (Alfie) and hers is a black and tan (Oscar).

Anyway my SIL found herself in a difficult situation last week and I had to take Oscar in temporarily. Fast forward to now though and she is not in a position to take him back and wants to sell him.

He is not my dog but he has been Alfie's playmate for the last 8 months and it makes me sad to think I won't see him again.

I am very tempted to keep him but most people tell me it's mad.

Is it? Can two male german shepherds get along? They are fine atm but I have read that they could fight for dominance when they reach maturity.

Alfie seems to be the alpha and sometimes growls at Oscar if he gets too playful, Oscar is faster and this frustrates Alfie.

Also to add I have two children aged 4 & 5. Neither dog has ever shown any aggression towards them.

Behaviour wise, Alfie is better as I have spent alot of time working on it, he has a brilliant recall and doesn't pull. Oscar still needs alot of work in this area.

Any opinions?

Bit of a long one, I suppose I am just thinking out loud. I am very fond of Oscar.

Raksha

They're very probably at the worst they will ever be, behaviour wise, if you can cope with them now, it's highly unlikely to get worse. In an ideal siuation, id suggest not getting litter mates, and certainly not of the same sex, but if they very different individually, and you are aware of that, and work to accentuate those differences, there really isn't any reason they can't live together.

I would recommend spending time with them each individually so they become bonded to you and not each other

missewan

It is definitely double the work. Oscar is very needy and constantly wants to be near me, he whines and lets out pee if I leave the room and come back, even after only a few minutes.

He is a very lovable chap and I want to give him the same security that my Alfie has, but I don't want the heartbreak of it not working out and him leaving us a year or whatever down the line.

krlyr

In regards to being alpha, establishing dominance, etc. - the scientist who did one of the main studies on wolves that founded the belief in the dominance theory/"alpha" status later rescinded his findings.
http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die

However, there can be issues with owning littermates, or even just two dogs of a similar age. Young dogs have to develop and learn social skills - by having two 'socially unsavvy' dogs in a household, you run the risk of games going overboard, body language failing to convey the intended message, or being misinterpreted due to a lack of being 'fluent' in 'dogspeak'. Add in the fact that both dogs experience surges of hormones at the same time, and you can end up with dog fights that can escalate in a confined home environment.

Given the age of your dogs - presumably adopted 8 months ago, at around 2 months old, they may be reaching the second 'fear stage', so it is critical to try to prevent negative experiences that may affect them for life. A sibling squabble could result in fear-based reactivity causing long-term issues, for example. GSDs are a breed that can be prone to issues due to their guarding nature, for example, so you may be in for more of a challenge than with some other breeds.
http://www.positivedogs.com/articles/early_doesnt_mean.html

If you are considering it, my advice would be to find a local APBC qualified behaviourist to assess the boys together and give their honest opinion on the situation, and advice/guidance for making things work out if you do adopt him.
http://www.apbc.org.uk - APBC members won't use forceful methods like choke and prong collars, electric shock collars, physical coersion and so on. Fair, modern methods will achieve much more longterm results, without being cruel to the dogs.

meritaten

you obviously want to keep the dog. are both dogs neutered? that can make a difference?
my neighbour looks after two westies and they are littermates and seems to get on very well. you KNOW the dogs. if they get on well and they are both trainable then I don't see why you shouldn't at least try with your sisters dog.

missewan

krlyr - Thanks for the articles, especially the first one, it was a very interesting read as the training class we currently attend with Alfie is all about dominance and showing the dog you are boss.

meritaten - You are right, I do want to keep him. I am just unsure as I get very attached to my dogs and when my first Shepherd died I was devastated, it took me along time to get over the heartbreak.

They do get along ok, Alfie is a lazy dog (for a shep) and sometimes will give Oscar a warning as he is always full of energy and would play all day if Alfie would oblige.

Neither dog is neutered, we plan to have Alfie done in the near future though and if we kept Oscar he would be also.

I definitely think if I put the work in I can get Oscar to the same standard as Alfie, I don't think my SIL realised how much training and exercise sheps need so I think this may have been lacking.

meritaten

missewan - you know in your heart what to do. keep both dogs! neutering may help too. but, I have known littermates getting on fine - neighbours dogs are a delightful pair. so it can be done!

Shepherd1

I had two female german shepherds for 10 years they were not litter mates but there was only 7 months between them. They never once had a disagreement and they had a great life together.

The bad thing for us was they were so closely bonded that they had to be pts at the same time. The eldest lost control of her hind legs and the youngest had cancer now we could have kept the youngest for another few months but the vet recommended they went together.

It was the best thing for them as the youngest really wouldn't have coped on her own, they went everywhere together if one left the room the other followed. It was very hard for us to do though we sat in one room with the eldest will she was pts then went next door and sat with the youngest, the vet then lifted the youngest and carried her into the room with the eldest so we could sit with both of them.

I will admit it broke my heart and I never want to do it again so my advice is go for it but get them used to doing things alone.

con1888

If I were you I would keep em both, he knows you, you know him, you sound reponsible.

I would still do some seperate training with them though and any signs of fighting/dominance nip it in the bud now.

Two males tend to get on a lot easier than two females do.

krlyr

missewan wrote: »

krlyr - Thanks for the articles, especially the first one, it was a very interesting read as the training class we currently attend with Alfie is all about dominance and showing the dog you are boss.

[url]Http://www.apdt.co.uk[/url] will list trainers who don't support the pack theory etc.

I agree on what others say about encouraging independence. I have a GSD and a Rottie x GSD. The GSD is happy to be left on his own, but the Rottie x developed separation anxiety due to hypothyroidism (one symptom can be anxiety) and since then we've had to keep working on being able to leave her home to take Casper out on his own. She's fine to go out without him but not the other way aroind, which does make it hard to put more work into his training (he is fear reactive with dogs..has improved a lot but could do with some more work)

Raksha

I don't agree with castrating both dogs I'm afraid. This can eliminate the hirmones that are making them sufficiently different to be able to tolerate each other. I'd actually castrate the one who appears the more lower ranking between them.