House Purchase - Septic Tank Problems!

leccyblue

Hi All,

Fairly unique situation we are in, so a quick bit of background. Almost 5 years ago, my wife's parents bought a repossessed property, for us to live in. We couldn't afford a deposit at the time, so plan was for us to live in it rent free, save, and then buy it off them later. Fast forward to now, we are now ready to buy it from them.

The property has a septic tank. Our solicitor has sent a list of questions regarding this to the in-laws solicitors, for them to fill in. They know absolutely nothing about the system; no queries were raised when they bought, and no information was given to them (presumably as it was a repossession this wasn't available). Anyway, between us we decided to get a drainage guy to have a look at it for us, so they can at least answer the questions. So we now know enough about it to fill out the form.

However, one question is "please confirm that the system does not discharge into a watercourse". So, according to the drains guy, it does. It discharges into a piped dyke at the rear of the property. He seems to think that this is OK, as when the system was installed (when the house was built - 1981) this was acceptable.

Clearly, the question is worded in such a way that makes it seem that this isn't OK. I've fired off an e-mail to our solicitor to see what she makes of it. But I'm looking for some advice if possible from people who have been in similar situations?

I've done some googling and can see on the Environment Agency website that you can apply for exemptions for a septic tank but it then goes on to say that a septic tank discharging into a watercourse needs a permit rather than exemption. It also says somewhere else on their site that this isn't an acceptable arrangement and a permit would not be given. It seems there's a lot of conflicting information!

Now we know about this, we're not comfortable with this arrangement, and we will rectify this by connecting to the mains drain which was installed in the main road a year before the in-laws bought the property. The property was vacant and hence the private drains weren't connected - we didn't bother as the work was quoted at £3,700 (needs concrete pulling up and relaying) and as we've never had any problems with the system we figured it was cheaper to just pay £90 a year to have the tank emptied.

However - is this likely to hold the sale up? It will take us 3-4 months to save the money to have this work done - but we really don't want to hold the sale up as the in-laws are looking at another property and need to be in a position to move on this.

Would be really interested to hear the thoughts of those with experience of these matters!

silvercar

I think you need to instruct your solicitor that you are buying off family and you don't want difficult questions asked!

You are now aware that you may need to spend the money rectifying this in the future, as long as that is fine by you, I would not pursue further. Certainly tipping off the environment agency could result in them taking action to force the owner to sort it.

In a normal sale, between strangers, the buyers would try to get the sellers to sort this issue or would otherwise reduce the offer by the costs involved.

borkid

In the recent past I have lived in a house with a biodigester which emptied into the local waterway. The discharge had to meet certain criteria. When we purchsed the property we had to inform the environment agency that we we the new owners, likewise the people who bought from us had to do the same. I'm not sure if biodigesters and septic tanks are the same, I think not. You could have the 'waste' which is flowing into the ditch tested for purity.
Sorry I can't be of more help. Even though you are buying from family I think you might still need to inform the environment agency. When our buyers had their survey done the surveyor asked several questions about it and I got the impression she was very releived when I said we had informed the environment agency!

leccyblue

silvercar wrote: »

I think you need to instruct your solicitor that you are buying off family and you don't want difficult questions asked!

You are now aware that you may need to spend the money rectifying this in the future, as long as that is fine by you, I would not pursue further. Certainly tipping off the environment agency could result in them taking action to force the owner to sort it.

In a normal sale, between strangers, the buyers would try to get the sellers to sort this issue or would otherwise reduce the offer by the costs involved.

I did try this; as soon as the in-laws received the questions I contacted her to say it was a pointless exercise since we already live there, there was no information available, and unless it was a legal requirement to go ahead without it - however she said that she needed the information "to comply". In a way I'm pleased, as we have now found out about this problem. We're more than happy to spend the money and have it rectified - we'd just rather wait until the sale has completed so the in-laws have their money returned and can move with their next venture; and we can have a few months to save the money.

Support_Peggy

I don't know if your system will qualify for exemption.

But this site has some information regarding this and the company a free phone number you could perhaps call for advice?

It does mention connecting to a public sewer which looks like you plan to do anyway.
But fingers crossed you might be able to get an exemption and save money for now. It is a site called..... uk septic tanks . The regulations look loke a small outflow may be allowable. There were quoted volumes for examples of X number of person per tank.
Good Luck.
Edit . sorry I cannot post the link.

It is now the case that most discharges to surface and groundwater require a permit. However there are some exceptions and these are called exemptions.
Exemptions are activities that don’t need a permit but nonetheless require registration – The following information is based on our best understanding of the legislation as it currently stands but this is a rapidly developing area and if you are unsure of anything, please call us on 0800 085 0640 for some free, impartial advice.

PS I have nothing to do with the above company, just was curious and had a search.

leccyblue

borkid wrote: »

In the recent past I have lived in a house with a biodigester which emptied into the local waterway. The discharge had to meet certain criteria. When we purchsed the property we had to inform the environment agency that we we the new owners, likewise the people who bought from us had to do the same. I'm not sure if biodigesters and septic tanks are the same, I think not. You could have the 'waste' which is flowing into the ditch tested for purity.
Sorry I can't be of more help. Even though you are buying from family I think you might still need to inform the environment agency. When our buyers had their survey done the surveyor asked several questions about it and I got the impression she was very releived when I said we had informed the environment agency!

Thanks for that! I think a biodigester discharges much cleaner water from what I've read, and only requires an exemption (which is free to apply for). I'm reluctant to contact the EA until we have some clarity...their website seems to give conflicting advice as to whether or not a permit would be granted. A permit costs £125, takes weeks to process and they may just turn round and say no, you need to sort it (and potentially issue a fine).

Ideally we need to find a solution whereby our conveyancer will proceed with the sale regardless. We know it's an issue now and we will sort it within the next 6 months - there's really no point holding the sale up to try and get a permit for something that has been there for 32 years and will only be there for a further 6 months max.

I don't think she will want to do this but I really need to find out whether she has any choice in the matter or not; i.e. whether she legally can't proceed without a permit/solution in place or whether she can advise against doing so but we overrule the decision (and without the EA being notified)

xylophone

Could your conveyancer not ring the EA to clarify?

leccyblue

xylophone wrote: »

Could your conveyancer not ring the EA to clarify?

Yes, I'd just rather we have an idea of where we stand first. I don't want her ringing them giving our address details etc only to find a fine landing on the doormat!!

Managed to find this paragraph on the permit application...

Environment_Agency_B6.5_Application_for_Permit wrote:

If you have a septic tank that discharges directly to surface water, you will need to apply for a permit to make the discharge but if granted, this will almost certainly require you to upgrade to a treatment plant. We will usually allow up to 12 months to complete an upgrade, although this depends on individual circumstances.

However I've also read that they won't grant a permit if within 30m of a mains sewer, which we are. So ultimately contacting the EA is (in the context of us moving to mains sewage anyway) going to be a bit pointless. We really need our conveyancer to go ahead anyway (with her warnings) and then we'll sort it out in the new year. I've phoned to speak to her but she's not in today. I really need to know before speaking to her what power she has to enforce us to rectify before the sale, if any?

xylophone

Should the PILS not be paying if the work is required? If you were buying from other than family, you would offer less in this situation?

leccyblue

xylophone wrote: »

Should the PILS not be paying if the work is required? If you were buying from other than family, you would offer less in this situation?

Yes, I guess ordinarily that would be the case! But as I said earlier this is a unique situation. The in-laws purchased this property for us to live in rent free whilst we save a deposit. We are now at that point (nearly 5 years later) and are returning their original money plus all costs incurred. I don't think it would be fair to now suggest to them that they rectify this before selling to us!!

sandsni

Did the in-laws not discover the existence of the septic tank and where it drained to when they bought the property? Wouldn't information like that been in the paperwork or shown up in surveys etc. then? If it wasn't a problem when they bought it, have the regulations changed that it would be a problem now?