Zero hours contracts - it's all about the oppressed workers...not

Percy1983

I won't say its harash to get half a point for lateness, I would ask if the points ever get dropped, ie 6 1 minute lates over 6 years is hardly a problem.

I will say in a previous job at one point there was serious roadworks near my place of work, I amde reasonable adjustments but a few days I was 1-2 minutes late. On each day I stayed 5 minutes later after work and never thought anything about it.

A week later a get pulled in to management and the lateness is brought up and I will say they didn't take the above as a valid excuse.

To which I then pointed out the clocking machine was 3 minutes fast (never complained as I was always early), I was intially met with a "no its it not", so I said go and phone the talking clock while stood next to the clocking machine.

As it is I was asked to come back in 5 minutes, to which I am back to some sheepish management who didn't quite apologise but did agree I wasn't actually late so no further action was needed.

I will say the ordeal didn't bother me all that much but from the way they went at me initially for 5 minutes (and ignored the extra 20 minutes worked) I did decided I no longer wanted to work there, 2 months later I left and have been happy since.

bugslet

From my limited experience and confined to the specifics of running my own business for the last 23 years.

Firstly, I don't think any of my current drivers would want a zero hours contract - we pay during the downtime, it's my job to get work for the slack time, though in reality that is unlikely to happen. We have had drivers retire who would probably have been happy to do the odd day or two to top up their wages and give them something to do. If/when I retire, I'll probably feel the same.

For us a zero hours contract would increase the turnover of staff. Ours stay for a long time usually and we find that has benefits with our customers who feel comfortable having continuity. Although we are just a haulage company, we are very specialist and it can take up to 3 months to get a driver trained and accredited; I need to keep them.

On the subject of lateness, we aren't fussed for a couple of minutes. None of mine push it, most of them are there a little earlier. We have found as a small company, that not being too draconian on what we consider minor issues, has a led to a culture where there is a bit of give and take on both sides. I am aware that it's a fine line/juggling act and it's probably not possible to achieve in a large company.

Perelandra

Percy1983 wrote: »

I won't say its harash to get half a point for lateness, I would ask if the points ever get dropped, ie 6 1 minute lates over 6 years is hardly a problem.

They get dropped after 3 months.

Percy1983

Perelandra wrote: »

They get dropped after 3 months.

Not too unreasonable then I would say, if I wasn't happy about that then I wouldn't work there.

Graham_Devon

Percy1983 wrote: »

Not too unreasonable then I would say, if I wasn't happy about that then I wouldn't work there.

Need to bear in mind though that if you get three, you won't have points to drop, as you'll have been dismissed anyway.

3 is the trigger point for dismissal. So you can't have 3 points on your record.

It's 2 where you start getting into trouble.

Secondly, even having a point on your record is enough for you to be replaced by a temporary worker. Amazon made this clear. if a temporary worker has no points and you have 1.5 points, you may find you are releaved of your position and the temp worker get's a placement.

Amazon stated they want to keep the best workers and they cannot possibly keep all 15,000 temps. Which they can't. But if you have points, you could find yourself replaced, even if you only have one point. The whole system is based on pure fear.

One of the ex employees stated you end up fearful of the scanner, the points, the temps, as everything is a threat.

Percy1983

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Need to bear in mind though that if you get three, you won't have points to drop, as you'll have been dismissed anyway.

3 is the trigger point for dismissal. So you can't have 3 points on your record.

It's 2 where you start getting into trouble.

Secondly, even having a point on your record is enough for you to be replaced by a temporary worker. Amazon made this clear. if a temporary worker has no points and you have 1.5 points, you may find you are releaved of your position and the temp worker get's a placement.

Amazon stated they want to keep the best workers and they cannot possibly keep all 15,000 temps. Which they can't. But if you have points, you could find yourself replaced, even if you only have one point. The whole system is based on pure fear.

One of the ex employees stated you end up fearful of the scanner, the points, the temps, as everything is a threat.

As said I wouldn't want to work in such an environment so won't and others have the choice too.

I guess the problem is it will just stress some people where others will thrive on it, if you thrive in that kind of environment then amazon want you.

chucky

the_flying_pig wrote: »

well, it depends.

two minutes is really nothing at all, i mean really nothing.

if we're talking about a job like [say] swimming pool lifeguard or office receptionist, where physically being at your workstation for every second of the day is the key thing, then maybe, but most jobs aren't like that, rather a person's effectiveness turns on their ability to perform a high quantity & quality of work in a time period that doesn't at all need to be measured to the nearest minute or two. individual effectiveness in jobs like this tends to vary wildly betweem individuals to an extent that being two minutes late just doesn't matter. fair enough if being late is used as an excuse to get rid of someone who's, all round, a bit rubbish at their job, maybe it should be easier to get rid of people in many lines of work, but in the most part i'd tend to see nit picking over tiny things like this as totally pointlessly tyrcannical, dehumanising, whatever.

Of course it depends.

Do you really think if this guy was a good performing employee they would be punishing him just for being late 2 minutes late?

If you're all for low performance by workers good for you but I believe you get paid to work, not turning up late and doing the job on time properly just as you signed up to do.

the_flying_pig

chucky wrote: »

...Do you really think if this guy was a good performing employee they would be punishing him just for being late 2 minutes late?...

you're quite possibly right, maybe we're making a fuss about nothing.

a vaguely sensible rule might just be to say 'we'll aim to get rid of about the bottom performing [say] 5% of employees in a particular year'.

i maintain that such precise timing seems ridiculous.

lemonjelly

Generali wrote: »

Interesting. It appears that there is a quid pro quo:

The survey found four out of five respondents on zero-hours contracts said they were never penalised if they were unavailable for work.

So the employer accepts that flexibility cuts both ways.

It would be interesting to see the proportion of young and older people on this sort of contract. There were times in my teens and early 20s when working a bit and being off a bit would have been quite fun.

Yeah, cos the ones who refused work, or raised a grievance were "let go" shortly after...

chucky

the_flying_pig wrote: »

you're quite possibly right, maybe we're making a fuss about nothing.

a vaguely sensible rule might just be to say 'we'll aim to get rid of about the bottom performing [say] 5% of employees in a particular year'.

i maintain that such precise timing seems ridiculous.

Such precise timing probably is ridiculous but it needs to be there so that employees have the boundaries set what and not to do.

Arriving on time to work is important.