forced to pay deceased dads gas debt

undaunted

brewerdave wrote: »

Don't disagree at all in principle -but there have been numerous cases,particularly with shared student houses,where names have been added to accounts after the event, rightly or wrongly!

I was just thinking the same & don't necessarily think it is different. It's often been said on here that students sharing a house are all liable (rightly so in my opinion) regardless of who / how many names may / may not be on the bill.


In this case do they think you were living there previously and can you prove that this isn't true? I agree with dogshome that this point will be very important in resolving this one way or the other

If you had been living there then I'd say there would be an argument for pursuing you like this / claiming that you were jointly & severally liable. If you can prove that you were not living there then I think you'd have an inarguable case in saying that it's not your debt, if there genuinely were no assets it will have to be written off etc (though was this house furnished or unfurnished when rented, - if furnishings were your dads stuff they could be argued to be assets / saleable to pay the bill)

If you still believe that you have a case I'd suggest putting the facts to the supplier (and Ombudsman if they intend taking this up) in writing rather than rely on call centres

They are not going to take you to Court - they have a PPM to collect the debt - so ignore that advice. If you want to take it to Court you will have to claim against them. If you are unemployed (or on other benefits) it may cost you nothing to make a small claim & you do not need to have a solicitor to do it

[Deleted User]

JimmyTheWig wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your loss, OP, and the problems you have been having.

This is probably going to sound harsh, but it is of no use to you to just tell you the nice things that you want to hear.
Did your father really have nothing when he died? No TV? No CD collection? No wedding ring? No clothes? Literally nothing that could be sold to even recoup some of the debt that he owed?

Obviously that might be the case, but it would be unlikely.

Did he owe money elsewhere? Did that get paid?

I agree Jimmythewhig that its unlikely but my mum died owing £20,000 and we were lucky to cobble up £500 quid from her estate . The funeral costs comes first in any estate, followed by the taxman. The debtors are third in line . Most funerals are a minimum of over £2000 so for someone of little means, that can soak up whats left

chirpchirp

I think the key to this is proving you weren't living there when your father was alive. Do you have utility bills from your previous address, particularly a council tax bill that shows that you were paying elsewhere. If you can prove when you moved in you will have a much stronger case.

As others have said you need to find out who your MP is and go and see them as a matter of urgency.

[Deleted User]

chirpchirp wrote: »

I think the key to this is proving you weren't living there when your father was alive. Do you have utility bills from your previous address, particularly a council tax bill that shows that you were paying elsewhere. If you can prove when you moved in you will have a much stronger case.

As others have said you need to find out who your MP is and go and see them as a matter of urgency.

No need to prove if the OP or anyone else was living with the Dad, or get any MPs involved. a bit of common sense from the Ombudsman will see BG drop this farcical claim. Its the old account holders debt and his only. He could owe the "bookie " thousands or anyone else for that matter. His debts died with him. I get regular visits from debt collectors re my mums massive debts, they are not my concern. Its all straightforward in this case, the assets dont cover any debtors, so case closed

Cardew

undaunted wrote: »

if there genuinely were no assets it will have to be written off etc (though was this house furnished or unfurnished when rented, - if furnishings were your dads stuff they could be argued to be assets / saleable to pay the bill)

We really are getting confused.

If someone dies intestate, then part of the probate procedure is to investigate if there are assets worth pursuing. It is nothing to do with any relative UNLESS they wish to get involved. The local district Probate office will appoint an administrator -if necessary a solicitor may be appointed to assist with the investigation; and his charges are paid from the estate. They, and they alone, will decide if there is any value in the estate.

The OP does not have to do anything about his father's estate, and technically he shouldn't remove a teaspoon from the house until being given permission by the probate office.

BG, in this case have to apply to the probate office for their debt to be paid, and as stated above, if there are no funds - they get nought.

I cannot understand why you feel the OP would need to account to BG for the value of any of his father's possessions, - that is the Probate office's job. Or account for where he lived, if the account was in his father's name alone, 'joint and severally liable' does not apply.

[Deleted User]

Cardew wrote: »

We really are getting confused.

If someone dies intestate, then part of the probate procedure is to investigate if there are assets worth pursuing. It is nothing to do with any relative UNLESS they wish to get involved. The local district Probate office will appoint an administrator -if necessary a solicitor may be appointed to assist with the investigation; and his charges are paid from the estate. They, and they alone, will decide if there is any value in the estate.

The OP does not have to do anything about his father's estate, and technically he shouldn't remove a teaspoon from the house until being given permission by the probate office.

BG, in this case have to apply to the probate office for their debt to be paid, and as stated above, if there are no funds - they get nought.

I cannot understand why you feel the OP would need to account to BG for the value of any of his father's possessions, - that is the Probate office's job. Or account for where he lived, if the account was in his father's name alone, 'joint and severally liable' does not apply.

I was executor to my dad, there was a house involved, so it went to probate. costs was only £8.50 to fill in the form and apply for letters of administration. ( no solicitors needed ) however with mum, she had no assets, no property and in these simple cases there is no need to apply for probate. I approached her main bank ( who were owed several thousands of pounds ) and they quickly ended up scrubbing any debts. The probate office is needed when the estate is valued over a certain amount or property is involved. There is nt any law which says you must even have an executor , as the executor can then be legally chased for debts, funeral costs

Cardew

sacsquacco wrote: »

however with mum, she had no assets, no property and in these simple cases there is no need to apply for probate. I approached her main bank ( who were owed several thousands of pounds ) and they quickly ended up scrubbing any debts. The probate office is needed when the estate is valued over a certain amount or property is involved. There is nt any law which says you must even have an executor , as the executor can then be legally chased for debts, funeral costs

Sorry but you have misunderstood.

Of course there is no need(for anyone) to apply for probate and obviously there doesn't have to be an executor. That doesn't mean that the Probate office are not involved. The investigations of the Probate office will determine the value of the estate.

If your mother died intestate - how/why did you become involved with her estate? What was your authority to contact the bank?(don't take that the wrong way - we all would have done the same)

Take your case, what if your mother had possessions(not bank accounts) worth many many £thousands - valuable paintings, furniture etc? You seem to be suggesting that by nobody applying for probate nothing would happen?

In that case when my multi-millionaire dad dies I will ensure his will is burnt, nobody will apply for probate and we will live happily ever after;)

If a down and out tramp is found dead in the street, his case is still(in theory) investigated and his case will lie on file. If subsequently it emerged that he had huge assets an investigation would be opened to trace relatives etc.

Cardew

undaunted wrote: »

I was just thinking the same & don't necessarily think it is different. It's often been said on here that students sharing a house are all liable (rightly so in my opinion) regardless of who / how many names may / may not be on the bill.

They may all be liable for a share of the bill but not to the Utility company!

If there is only one person named on the bill, they alone are responsible for paying the Utility company. Utility companies will never get involved in Third party disputes. They have no idea of the names of other occupants, or who moved in/out when, or who paid their share to the account holder etc.

That person can sue the other house occupants for their share of the bill.

If you read any of the Student advice websites it usually has this type of advice:

Make sure all your flatmates names are on the bills so everyone is equally liable for their fair share of bills.

I_have_spoken

OP, sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it!

By some mysterious process the HA handed you the property, even though you weren't residing there.

But at the same time, you don't want any responsibility for the bills.

All sounds a wee bit too convenient, shall we say!

[Deleted User]

Cardew wrote: »

Sorry but you have misunderstood.

Of course there is no need(for anyone) to apply for probate and obviously there doesn't have to be an executor. That doesn't mean that the Probate office are not involved. The investigations of the Probate office will determine the value of the estate.

If your mother died intestate - how/why did you become involved with her estate? What was your authority to contact the bank?(don't take that the wrong way - we all would have done the same)

Take your case, what if your mother had possessions(not bank accounts) worth many many £thousands - valuable paintings, furniture etc? You seem to be suggesting that by nobody applying for probate nothing would happen?

In that case when my multi-millionaire dad dies I will ensure his will is burnt, nobody will apply for probate and we will live happily ever after;)

If a down and out tramp is found dead in the street, his case is still(in theory) investigated and his case will lie on file. If subsequently it emerged that he had huge assets an investigation would be opened to trace relatives etc.

When I applied for probate , all it meant was that I went along to the probate office and swore on the holy bible that I would administer the estate honestly and correctly. It was all then down to me personally to investigate and administer the estate. The probate office dont have the means or manpower to do any investigations. normally it is solicitors who take this role on. I suppose I could ve been open to prosecution if I had not done the job properly.I had enough family members making sure everything was above board