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What is fraud?

Hi, quick query.

I rented a car through rentalcars.com and Goldcar back in September (I didn't realise how appalling Goldcar was - should've checked first, but that's another story).

This week a new transaction has appeared, debiting money from my card, from Goldcar.

I called my card company to say this is fraudulent activity and they (Tesco) told me that because Goldcar did not obtain my details fraudulently, this is not fraud so I have to go via chargeback to recover it.

Surely this is wrong? If I go to a restaurant and pay by card, then two months later the restaurant charges a new amount to my card, is that not fraud?

Thank you.
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Comments

  • Mulder00
    Mulder00 Posts: 508 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 100 Posts
    You probably signed something saying that they can take money off your card as you are liable for any fines you incur while renting a car.
  • DrRoebuck wrote: »
    Surely this is wrong? If I go to a restaurant and pay by card, then two months later the restaurant charges a new amount to my card, is that not fraud?

    It depends what terms you agreed to.

    Most hire car companies have in their T&Cs that your card will be retained so that any damages, fines, parking tickets etc will be paid for using your card.

    If this is in their terms, you've agreed to them, and assuming you've incurred a parking ticket, road toll, damaged the car etc then its not fraud. If you didnt agree to this in the terms or there was no reason for another charge then it would be fraud.
  • gb12345
    gb12345 Posts: 3,055 Forumite
    Who did you speak to at your card company? If it was just a call centre chimp then get back in touch with them and ask to speak to the fraud department and tell them that the particular transaction is fraudulent as you didn't authorise it.
  • Thanks - it is a good point about rental car companies having terms regarding future transactions, but seeing as they already deducted petrol money the week after the rental, I assumed that was all concluded. This just seems way too long after the event.

    Goldcar make it exceedingly hard to even find a contact email address, but I've written to rentalcars.com to see if they can help.
  • It sounds like it is possibly a fine - have you tried contacting GOldcar to find out what the charge is rather than just trying to have it returned? It is most likely a legitimate charge, but without knowing why they have charged you it's impossible to say if it is Fraud or not
  • gb12345
    gb12345 Posts: 3,055 Forumite
    DrRoebuck wrote: »
    Goldcar make it exceedingly hard to even find a contact email address.

    Took me about 30 seconds to find one (including Googling for their website address) - it is on here http://www.goldcar.co.uk/en/reserva/
  • Ha, thanks gb. Way to show me up! Much appreciated. I was trying to contact them via the 'Customer Services' tab, which wouldn't accept my reference number or details etc. I'll try them now, but I must say it's a rather random number (in Euros) for a fine.

    Thus far, hiring a car with Goldcar for 18 hours has cost me £180.
  • fermi
    fermi Posts: 40,542 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker Rampant Recycler
    A quick Google suggests that Goldcar have an extensive "history" of unauthorised and spurious payments.

    https://www.google.co.uk/#q=goldcar+unauthorised

    http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/feb/19/car-hire-holidaymakers-goldcar
    Free/impartial debt advice: National Debtline | StepChange Debt Charity | Find your local CAB

    IVA & fee charging DMP companies: Profits from misery, motivated ONLY by greed
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 18,178 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    DrRoebuck wrote: »

    ... is that not fraud?

    Hi DrRoebuck

    To answer your question "What is fraud?" - a key component is dishonesty.

    So if the hire company knew that you didn't owe them money, but pretended you did owe them money, and debited your card - that might be fraud.

    In this case, I suspect the hire company believe that you really did owe them money - so there is no fraud.

    Depending on what you contractually agreed, they may have debited your card without your authorisation. (So you could tell the bank it is an unauthorised transaction.)

    But it might be sensible to re-read the contract you signed and ask the hire company why they made the charge first.

    If you feel that the charge is a breach of the contract, and the card in question is a credit card, you will also have s75 protection.
  • Atidi
    Atidi Posts: 943 Forumite
    DrRoebuck wrote: »
    Hi, quick query.

    I rented a car through rentalcars.com and Goldcar back in September (I didn't realise how appalling Goldcar was - should've checked first, but that's another story).

    This week a new transaction has appeared, debiting money from my card, from Goldcar.

    I called my card company to say this is fraudulent activity and they (Tesco) told me that because Goldcar did not obtain my details fraudulently, this is not fraud so I have to go via chargeback to recover it.

    Surely this is wrong? If I go to a restaurant and pay by card, then two months later the restaurant charges a new amount to my card, is that not fraud?

    Thank you.

    Do you sign a long worded, contractual agreement when you go to a restauarant?

    What aree the new charges for? Did you agree to them in the contact you signed?

    I agree with Tesco, I can't see how this is fraud (not given the limited information you have provided).


    Fraud. n. wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
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