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students accomodation and water bill
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west_is_best
Posts: 1,797 Forumite

Daughter getting debt collectors bills because of the water bill in a student accomodation... help needed
She shared a house with 4 others, 2 have graduated, one has dropped out, one still living in the house and my daughter..
The landlord only named 3 of the students to Welsh Water, the bill has come, my daughter went to the bank to pay her share (as she doesnt know where the other 3 are) but they couldnt accept it, she phoned Welsh Water, again wanting to pay her share, they couldnt take part payment, the landlord doesnt want to know...
because the bill only had 3 names, they are the ones that are liable for paying the bill... to me, I would say that the landlords should take some responsibility for not naming the other 2....
Anyone else had this problem? Will we have to pay the whole bill? Im so scared my dd will end up with bad credit if its not sorted soon,,,
Any advice much appreciated xx
She shared a house with 4 others, 2 have graduated, one has dropped out, one still living in the house and my daughter..
The landlord only named 3 of the students to Welsh Water, the bill has come, my daughter went to the bank to pay her share (as she doesnt know where the other 3 are) but they couldnt accept it, she phoned Welsh Water, again wanting to pay her share, they couldnt take part payment, the landlord doesnt want to know...
because the bill only had 3 names, they are the ones that are liable for paying the bill... to me, I would say that the landlords should take some responsibility for not naming the other 2....
Anyone else had this problem? Will we have to pay the whole bill? Im so scared my dd will end up with bad credit if its not sorted soon,,,
Any advice much appreciated xx
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Comments
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It seems to me to be neither the landlord's problem or the water company's problem. It is in fact your daughter's problem. It is your daughter who has the contract with the water company, along with the other students -- not the landlord. If there's a dispute with who pays what share, that is a civil issue between your daughter and the other bill payers. She will need to ask the other residents to pay up.0
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The landlord doesn't need to be interested, on day one all tenants should have contacted the water company, they chose not to and so they can't complain when they don't like the results.
I hope they have been more responsible with their other utilities.0 -
What on earth is the purpose of your post GwylimT, and even yours brendon ? And why are you slapping your thanks on both posts, Lokolo?
How do you know brendon that in fact any of these students has a valid contract with the water company?
Just because you occupy a property and someone passes your name to a Third Party does not mean they have effectively signed you up for any contract unless you have given authority to your landlord to do just that. What does the rental contract say about the water bills ? We don't know yet do we ? It is perfectly possible to rent a property without ever having a contract with the water company.
It has for decades been a very grey area with water companies that they often accept the names of new occupants from persons already on their books in relation to property e.g. the landlord or previous owner. They can then send those new names a bill, but whether there is an effective contract between the new names and the water company is a wholly different matter.
I think such implied contracts rely simply upon demands being issued and a pattern of payment arising/becoming established. So it might depend on whose name previous demands have been issued and how they got paid.
It may also be a question of whether the rental agreement properly authorises the landlord to declare the students names as occupants who agree liability for the water charges. Perhaps there is as the OP suggests an onus on the landlord to get the names right for a start. It already seems that the landlord has fouled up once by not naming all the parties he or she may have been collecting rent from. And if the water company has not established a pattern of liability direct with the students then that also is questionable.
Then there is the question of joint and several liability for rent and/or utilities (or not). In whose names was the rental contract? Did they have one each for a room in a shared house for example?
Was one student responsible either initially or even subsequently for a single rental contract, or alternatively for organising a joint names contract in which the names might change periodically ?
In the real world there might be several "day ones" as GwylimT puts it e.g. when the first students move in, and when additional students may join the house or leave it and be replaced (or not).
The OP's daughter's problem is by no means a simple problem and it deserves more than just two posts which basically say "Tough Luck. You're holding the baby. Suck it Up"
I suggest that the rental agreement is closely perused and a chronology of contract events (signatures & payments)/occupancy comings and goings)/water company correspondence, bills & payments is quickly drawn up and an assessment made of who made what commitment, what mistake and when.
It may well be that the OP's daughter, through no fault of her own other than trusting people she lived with, will indeed be left holding the baby, but before that is allowed to happen, there are surely things that can be done.
For example, I was reminded by a line in a movie the other day "The best way to find someone is to go to the police and accuse them of a crime". Walking away and hiding from a debt for no good reason and deliberately causing a financial loss to another from whom you are also hiding is potentially fraud/or what used to be called 'obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception'.From the late great Tommy Cooper: "He said 'I'm going to chop off the bottom of one of your trouser legs and put it in a library.' I thought 'That's a turn-up for the books.' "0 -
Turnip, your communication skills would be much improved if you learned how to be concise.0
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jacques_chirac wrote: »Turnip, your communication skills would be much improved if you learned how to be concise.
Never mind me, what joy have you for the OP?From the late great Tommy Cooper: "He said 'I'm going to chop off the bottom of one of your trouser legs and put it in a library.' I thought 'That's a turn-up for the books.' "0 -
TurnUpForTheBooks wrote: »What on earth is the purpose of your post GwylimT, and even yours brendon ? And why are you slapping your thanks on both posts, Lokolo?
Because it has nothing to do with the landlord, it is the tenants who have to sort it out. As the 2 posts I thanked said.
Unless the contract says anything about utilities, the landlord cannot do anything. It is up to the OPs DD to sort it out with fellow tenants.
As for the rest of your post, you clearly do not have a clue as to what you are talking about.0 -
Because it has nothing to do with the landlord, it is the tenants who have to sort it out. As the 2 posts I thanked said.
Unless the contract says anything about utilities, the landlord cannot do anything. It is up to the OPs DD to sort it out with fellow tenants.
As for the rest of your post, you clearly do not have a clue as to what you are talking about.
The landlord may well not be able to do anything if they have been dilatory with the rental agreements, including not being able to do anything about the water company turning their attention back to the landlord if this does not get settled in full. Afterall, one assumes the landlord owns the property where the water got used and the drains were maintained? Why would the water company be particularly interested in what the landlord was doing with his property especially if they became aware that no proper agreement for transferring the water bill liability actually existed?From the late great Tommy Cooper: "He said 'I'm going to chop off the bottom of one of your trouser legs and put it in a library.' I thought 'That's a turn-up for the books.' "0 -
I posted to make the OP aware of the facts. I could have said "yeah it's the landlord's problem", but that wouldn't have done anything but mislead the OP. I think my post is fairly neutral in that respect. I certainly do have sympathy with the OP's daughter, as it is not her "fault" that this problem has arisen.
Of course, there may be a "loop hole" in the rental contract, but I think it is unlikely. There are typically two situations with renting: the water rates are included in the rent (i.e. the landlord has liability to the water company) or the the liability lies with the tenants. In this case, it seems that liability lies with the tenants (since the bill has been sent to them).
It's also worth noting that even if the bill is addressed to 3 people, the other tenants will still be liable to pay a certain proportion to the 3 people if that's the agreement they had. But it's really a problem between the OP's daughter and the other tenants. If they don't want to pay, small claims action could be a route.
If there's one good thing to come out of it, it's the life lesson that you cannot trust anybody with their word. Get everything in writing.0 -
I posted to make the OP aware of the facts. I could have said "yeah it's the landlord's problem", but that wouldn't have done anything but mislead the OP. I think my post is fairly neutral in that respect. I certainly do have sympathy with the OP's daughter, as it is not her "fault" that this problem has arisen.
Of course, there may be a "loop hole" in the rental contract, but I think it is unlikely. There are typically two situations with renting: the water rates are included in the rent (i.e. the landlord has liability to the water company) or the the liability lies with the tenants. In this case, it seems that liability lies with the tenants (since the bill has been sent to them).
It's also worth noting that even if the bill is addressed to 3 people, the other tenants will still be liable to pay a certain proportion to the 3 people if that's the agreement they had. But it's really a problem between the OP's daughter and the other tenants. If they don't want to pay, small claims action could be a route.
If there's one good thing to come out of it, it's the life lesson that you cannot trust anybody with their word. Get everything in writing.
As it turns out, and if Citizens Advice are to be trusted, it seems that whoever is still holding the baby when the bill comes in may unfortunately be 'it' because whoever lives in the property looks to be primarily responsible by default, and not the owner (assumed landlord) of the property as I suggested ought to be the case if the landlord had not properly passed on the liability in contract. My apologies for any false hope in that regard).
I presume CAB's advice is backed by legal precedent but no law is good if it places a joint and several liability on a group of barely consenting barely related strangers. Clearly the liability should be several only i.e. proportionate which was what the OP's daughter attempted to satisfy but got rejected.
Now I sympathise deeply OP. On the strength of that CAB page, it seems your daughter and the other occupant remaining will need to pay the bill and then make themselves unpopular with the other 3 by having them traced by all means possible and forced to pay their proportion of what was owed, plus interest.From the late great Tommy Cooper: "He said 'I'm going to chop off the bottom of one of your trouser legs and put it in a library.' I thought 'That's a turn-up for the books.' "0 -
jacques_chirac wrote: »Turnip, your communication skills would be much improved if you learned how to be concise.
That's made my day :beer:0
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