New boiler & windows?

Thommo_2

Hi,

I live in an old 3 bed terrace house with an antiquated central heating system and single glazed wooden windows; having now payed off the mortgage I'm in a good financial position to upgrade both the heating & windows.
I've read up on the governments "Green Deal" but it looks complex and there seem to be a lot of unknowns yet to be clarified; are there any other schemes I should be aware of, or should I just shop around for the best deal?

Paul.

martinsurrey

shop around for the best deal, and the best deal IS NOT green deal.

paulmapp8306

Worth changing the windows - may not be worth doing the boiler.

We have just done windows/doors/kitchen/bathroom/sealed tank and only had boiler to go. It works perfectly, but is a little underpowered since the changes, but its also 20 years old. I was cautious as the potential savings would just about cover the actual cost over 10-12 years which is the life expectancy of condenser boilers. I just thought on pure "economic" reasons it was touch and go as to whether it was worth it.

Those savings are based on a 90% efficient new condenser and a 60% efficient "old" boiler - so saving around 30% of my bill. My advice - get you existing boiler/system serviced and checked (cost me £60), then once you know exactly the state and efficiency of your existing system you can make an informed decision. Despite what the government (and energy companies) wants you to believe, an old system is not necessarily much less efficient than a new one - and there certainly more reliable with a longer life expectancy.

Decided to just get it serviced this winter and see how it copes (I have the cash for new one put aside). As part of the service they measure the efficiency of my old "obsolete - non efficient" boiler ...... and it was 84%. A whole 5-6% less efficient than a new one, which would save me approx £30/year. Given the cost of a new one installed was around £2k+ its just not worth it while the old one works.

Conversely, we have already seen a BIG improvement on our heating costs since the new windows went in (double glazed, energy efficient glass etc)

Re the green deal. Its not worth it in general. Definately not if you have the funds available elsewhere. While you dont pay up front, you do pay from what you save in costs (in my case not much as Ive said) so your no better off anyway until the boiler is paid off. You pay "interest" in the cost, and are restricted to who can install - meaning you may well pay over the odds for the new boiler (my quote from B Gas was £3600 v an independent at £2000.)

Mr_Ted

A common misconception about new boilers is the efficiency ratings, these are JUST the Combustion, efficiency of the boiler, which although does matter to gas usage, the main requirement to savings are also System Efficiency

If the system itself is not efficient and correct for the house and the rooms, the boiler alone will not save you anything, i.e. a boiler, or system that is too small will use more gas to heat the place, as will incorrect use and installation of controls

martinsurrey

paulmapp8306 wrote: »

Worth changing the windows - may not be worth doing the boiler.

We have just done windows/doors/kitchen/bathroom/sealed tank and only had boiler to go. It works perfectly, but is a little underpowered since the changes, but its also 20 years old. I was cautious as the potential savings would just about cover the actual cost over 10-12 years which is the life expectancy of condenser boilers. I just thought on pure "economic" reasons it was touch and go as to whether it was worth it.

Those savings are based on a 90% efficient new condenser and a 60% efficient "old" boiler - so saving around 30% of my bill. My advice - get you existing boiler/system serviced and checked (cost me £60), then once you know exactly the state and efficiency of your existing system you can make an informed decision. Despite what the government (and energy companies) wants you to believe, an old system is not necessarily much less efficient than a new one - and there certainly more reliable with a longer life expectancy.

Decided to just get it serviced this winter and see how it copes (I have the cash for new one put aside). As part of the service they measure the efficiency of my old "obsolete - non efficient" boiler ...... and it was 84%. A whole 5-6% less efficient than a new one, which would save me approx £30/year. Given the cost of a new one installed was around £2k+ its just not worth it while the old one works.

Conversely, we have already seen a BIG improvement on our heating costs since the new windows went in (double glazed, energy efficient glass etc)

Re the green deal. Its not worth it in general. Definately not if you have the funds available elsewhere. While you dont pay up front, you do pay from what you save in costs (in my case not much as Ive said) so your no better off anyway until the boiler is paid off. You pay "interest" in the cost, and are restricted to who can install - meaning you may well pay over the odds for the new boiler (my quote from B Gas was £3600 v an independent at £2000.)

Agree 100% especially with the bold part.

Only other thing to consider is the fatal end of an old boiler.

Parts are harder to find, so if it breaks in the depth of winter, you could be waiting for a while for either, a new part, or the new boiler to be installed, could be a few weeks without heating if the local installers are busy (which they are in winter).

With a new modern boiler, parts should be available next day.

I could live without a boiler for a few weeks in winter, but I’ve got no kids and was brought up in the Northern countryside, so I’m pretty hardy, but I doubt my Gran could...

new_owner

Don't forget that replacing original windows for double glassing can reduce the value of your house. daft proofing and curtains/shutters will increase the efficiency of your old windows to the same as double glazing and cost quarter of the amount.

If you have old single brick the double glazing would be along way down the list.

ilikewatch

martinsurrey wrote: »

Agree 100% especially with the bold part.

Only other thing to consider is the fatal end of an old boiler.

Parts are harder to find, so if it breaks in the depth of winter, you could be waiting for a while for either, a new part, or the new boiler to be installed, could be a few weeks without heating if the local installers are busy (which they are in winter).

With a new modern boiler, parts should be available next day.

I could live without a boiler for a few weeks in winter, but I’ve got no kids and was brought up in the Northern countryside, so I’m pretty hardy, but I doubt my Gran could...

Though it's worth remembering that people's opinions of what constitutes an "old" boiler differ wildly - some people would say that my 12-15 year old Vaillant was ancient, but a recent test showed that it's combustion is 86% efficient, and every part I might need is available off the shelf (probably not if you have a service plan with BG)

Thommo_2

A big THANKYOU to all the replies, has given me a lot to think about including some options that never occurred to me.

My current boiler is a Ti Glow-Worm Space Saver 38 that is around 25 years old and has broken down twice, both times I was able to repair myself at a total cost of less than £30.........

I'm now considering keeping the boiler; just having the rest of the system overhauled such as new insulated water tank, flushing etc.
If spares are still available should be good for a few more years :T

macman

If you are in a 'good financial position', then why would you want to even consider borrowing over 10 years at 7%?