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Luton Airport PCN
Bunceless_Earner
Posts: 11 Forumite
WARNING: Long post contains text of Letters sent and received - but please persevere!
Dear Learned Folks,
In Sept 2013 I received a NTK from APCOA at Luton Airport requesting info on the name of the driver etc... Here is the text of the NTK (dates and names omitted):
>>START<<
Notice is hereby served to the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark #### ###
For the alleged contravention of 01-Falling to park ln a designated parking area.
at LUTON AIRPORT on ##/##/#### at ##:##
The alleged contravention is a BREACH OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE of the Airport road infrastructure and signs are clearly displayed throughout the area showing these terms and conditions.
Please note that the driver of the vehicle at the time of the breach of terms and conditions detailed above is required to pay the parking charges in respect of the above and these have not yet been paid ln full.
As we do not know either the name of the driver or their current serviceable address, we request that you either pay the full amount outstanding as noted above; or if you were not the driver of the vehicle at the specified period provide us with the name of the driver and their current serviceable address and pass this notice onto them. lf you have sold the vehicle, please provide us with the details of whom the vehicle was sold to as well as proof of sale. If you are a Hire Company please provide the name and serviceable address for the Hirer along with a statement signed by or on behalf of your firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement, a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement, within 28 days of the ‘date given' above.
A charge of £80.00 is payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the 'date given' above. If the charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the 'date given’, the amount of the charge will be reduced by 50%.
The vehicle keeper data has been obtained from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (under Regulation 27(1)(e) of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002). They have provided the details above as the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date and time of issue of the Parking Charge Notice. If you believe your data has been used/provided inappropriately, you can notify the DVLA by contacting 0870 240 0010 or the Office of the Information Commissioner on 0303 123 1113.
Collection activity may result in increased charges and APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd may engage third party Debt Collectors or commence legal proceedings for the recovery of the charge together with all associated costs.
Should you wish to dispute the issuing of this Parking Charge Notice, you can do so in writing to the address listed below within 28 days from the 'date given’ of this letter. All appeals must be directed to APCOA in the first instance. The Independent Appeals Panel- POPLA, may be engaged as a final avenue of recourse once APCOA’s appeals process has been exhausted.
>>END<<
For background info: The vehicle was stopped for no more than a max of 30 seconds, as the passenger panicked about having their passport and wanted to check if they had it. They went to the boot to check, it was suggested they just grab their bags and from here (just past the drop-off barrier as there was a chance that a return to home was likely. The passenger was already extremely late for their flight, in fact their bags never made the flight, so a day was wasted! The only photo that shows the vehicles reg number is when the vehicle is on a different road driving away from the airport, the other two photos are obscured by trees! All are of a low resolution and in the dark.
I subsequently read various posts on this Forum and other related sites and decided to write and sent the following letter (based on one suggested by CouponMad for a similar incident):
>>START<<
## October 2013
Dear Sir/Madam
RE: The unlawful issue of a ‘Parking Charge Notice’ (BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22)
I am the registered keeper of a *********** motor vehicle registration number #### ###
I refer to your Notice to Keeper ref: dated ## October 2013.
The fact that your document states that “Notice is hereby served to the registered keeper” along with other references drawn from the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) it is clear that Parking Collection Services is dealing with its claim in accordance with the requirements of Schedule 4 of PoFA.
The requirements of Schedule 4 PoFA are quite clear in that there must be strict compliance with all of its requirements in order to take advantage of the rights granted under that Act to pursue the registered keeper in respect of a driver’s alleged debt.
The BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice (version 2) supports the need for strict compliance (para 21.5 refers).
Parking Collection Services has however failed to comply with the statutory requirements as follows;
Firstly, in regards to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4, PoFA 2012. Whilst your ‘Notice’ has indicated that you require a payment to be made to APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd, there is no specific identification of the “Creditor”, who may, in law, be APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd or APCOA Parking Services, as it appears that they themselves only manage the land, some other party.
PoFA requires a ‘Notice to Keeper’ to have words to the effect that “The Creditor is….”
The wording of Paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of PoFA does not indicate that the “creditor must be named, but “identified”. To “identify” a “Creditor” a parking company must do more than name that person. The driver is entitled to know the identity of the party with whom he has legally contracted.
This view is supported by the Secretary of State for Transport. He has reserved to himself powers to make regulations to specify not only what must be said in a ‘Notice to Keeper’ but also what evidence should be provided.
He says “The purpose of this power is to leave flexibility to mandate the specific evidence which must accompany a notice to keeper if it becomes clear that creditors are attempting to recover parking charges without providing keepers with sufficient evidence to know whether the claim is valid”
Secondly, in addition to APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd's failure to specifically identify the “Creditor”, it has failed to provide any evidence that it, or a third party, is entitled to enforce an alleged breach of contractual terms and conditions.
Thirdly, the most serious failure and that which has given me cause to submit a formal complaint to the DVLA.
You have failed to comply with paragraph 9.4 of Schedule 4 of the Act in that you failed to give the Notice to Keeper to me within the “relevant period”.
The alleged infringement occurred on the ## September 2013 and no ‘Notice to Driver’ was issued at the time. The Notice to Keeper is dated ## October 2013 which is 19 days after the event and too late to ensure delivery within the statutory 14 days prescribed by PoFA.
Paragraph 9(4) indicates that the Notice to Keeper must be given to the registered keeper not more than 14 days after the car allegedly infringed the car park terms and conditions. Paragraph 9(6) states that “A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted”.
Your company would have been well aware of these facts when it took the decision to send out the Notice to Keeper under PoFA. You have misrepresented the legal position in the full knowledge that there can be no keeper liability.
That is an aggravating feature which the DVLA must take into account in determining what sanction to issue to your company.
I therefore expect you to immediately cancel the ‘parking charge’ and inform me, in writing that you have done.
If however, you reject this challenge, then, in accordance with the BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice (version 2) 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer this matter (and any further issues that I may subsequently raise) for their adjudication on the matter.
I do not expect to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you.
No further correspondence will be entered into.
Yours faithfully,
A N Other
>>END<<
NB: I'm not sure the 14 day rule has been missed. Thus far, I have never received a reply to this letter.
However, I received this letter from Roxburghe on Fri 15 Nov 2013:
>>START<<
Re: UNPAID PARKING CHARGE NOTICE ('PCN‘)
Our Client: APCOA PARKING (UK) LTD
Ticket Number: ##########
Total Amount Due: £128.00
Unauthorised Parking Event: 01-FAILING T0 PARK IN A DESIGNATED PARKING AREA.
We have been instructed by the above named client who has informed us that a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE was issued to the above-mentioned vehicle and the driver should have paid it. Our client has advised that they have not received payment or any valid dispute and therefore It is now too late to pay the discounted amount or
challenge this notice.
A notice was sent to you, as the registered keeper of the vehicle indicating that you could be liable for this charge If It remains unpaid, under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. This letter provides notification that you are now liable for the charge and that the Total Amount Due as shown above, is payable within the next 14 DAYS.
In line with the Terms and Conditions of parking at the above slte, recovery and administration charges have been incurred which are included in the Total Amount Due. Cheques should be made payable to Roxburghe (UK) Limited quoting our reference ######## on the reverse or you can contact 01932 332048 to arrange alternative payment options.
Yours sincerely
Steve Dargonne
Parking Services Manager
Roxburghe (UK) Limited
>>END<<
I would very much appreciate the Forum's expert advice and opinion. We're beginning to flap now, but having read all the threads I do not want to acquiesce.
Thanks very much in advance of any assistance and advice.
BE
Dear Learned Folks,
In Sept 2013 I received a NTK from APCOA at Luton Airport requesting info on the name of the driver etc... Here is the text of the NTK (dates and names omitted):
>>START<<
Notice is hereby served to the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark #### ###
For the alleged contravention of 01-Falling to park ln a designated parking area.
at LUTON AIRPORT on ##/##/#### at ##:##
The alleged contravention is a BREACH OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE of the Airport road infrastructure and signs are clearly displayed throughout the area showing these terms and conditions.
Please note that the driver of the vehicle at the time of the breach of terms and conditions detailed above is required to pay the parking charges in respect of the above and these have not yet been paid ln full.
As we do not know either the name of the driver or their current serviceable address, we request that you either pay the full amount outstanding as noted above; or if you were not the driver of the vehicle at the specified period provide us with the name of the driver and their current serviceable address and pass this notice onto them. lf you have sold the vehicle, please provide us with the details of whom the vehicle was sold to as well as proof of sale. If you are a Hire Company please provide the name and serviceable address for the Hirer along with a statement signed by or on behalf of your firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement, a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement, within 28 days of the ‘date given' above.
A charge of £80.00 is payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the 'date given' above. If the charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the 'date given’, the amount of the charge will be reduced by 50%.
The vehicle keeper data has been obtained from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (under Regulation 27(1)(e) of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002). They have provided the details above as the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date and time of issue of the Parking Charge Notice. If you believe your data has been used/provided inappropriately, you can notify the DVLA by contacting 0870 240 0010 or the Office of the Information Commissioner on 0303 123 1113.
Collection activity may result in increased charges and APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd may engage third party Debt Collectors or commence legal proceedings for the recovery of the charge together with all associated costs.
Should you wish to dispute the issuing of this Parking Charge Notice, you can do so in writing to the address listed below within 28 days from the 'date given’ of this letter. All appeals must be directed to APCOA in the first instance. The Independent Appeals Panel- POPLA, may be engaged as a final avenue of recourse once APCOA’s appeals process has been exhausted.
>>END<<
For background info: The vehicle was stopped for no more than a max of 30 seconds, as the passenger panicked about having their passport and wanted to check if they had it. They went to the boot to check, it was suggested they just grab their bags and from here (just past the drop-off barrier as there was a chance that a return to home was likely. The passenger was already extremely late for their flight, in fact their bags never made the flight, so a day was wasted! The only photo that shows the vehicles reg number is when the vehicle is on a different road driving away from the airport, the other two photos are obscured by trees! All are of a low resolution and in the dark.
I subsequently read various posts on this Forum and other related sites and decided to write and sent the following letter (based on one suggested by CouponMad for a similar incident):
>>START<<
## October 2013
Dear Sir/Madam
RE: The unlawful issue of a ‘Parking Charge Notice’ (BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22)
I am the registered keeper of a *********** motor vehicle registration number #### ###
I refer to your Notice to Keeper ref: dated ## October 2013.
The fact that your document states that “Notice is hereby served to the registered keeper” along with other references drawn from the Protection of Freedoms Act (PoFA) it is clear that Parking Collection Services is dealing with its claim in accordance with the requirements of Schedule 4 of PoFA.
The requirements of Schedule 4 PoFA are quite clear in that there must be strict compliance with all of its requirements in order to take advantage of the rights granted under that Act to pursue the registered keeper in respect of a driver’s alleged debt.
The BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice (version 2) supports the need for strict compliance (para 21.5 refers).
Parking Collection Services has however failed to comply with the statutory requirements as follows;
Firstly, in regards to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4, PoFA 2012. Whilst your ‘Notice’ has indicated that you require a payment to be made to APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd, there is no specific identification of the “Creditor”, who may, in law, be APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd or APCOA Parking Services, as it appears that they themselves only manage the land, some other party.
PoFA requires a ‘Notice to Keeper’ to have words to the effect that “The Creditor is….”
The wording of Paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of PoFA does not indicate that the “creditor must be named, but “identified”. To “identify” a “Creditor” a parking company must do more than name that person. The driver is entitled to know the identity of the party with whom he has legally contracted.
This view is supported by the Secretary of State for Transport. He has reserved to himself powers to make regulations to specify not only what must be said in a ‘Notice to Keeper’ but also what evidence should be provided.
He says “The purpose of this power is to leave flexibility to mandate the specific evidence which must accompany a notice to keeper if it becomes clear that creditors are attempting to recover parking charges without providing keepers with sufficient evidence to know whether the claim is valid”
Secondly, in addition to APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd's failure to specifically identify the “Creditor”, it has failed to provide any evidence that it, or a third party, is entitled to enforce an alleged breach of contractual terms and conditions.
Thirdly, the most serious failure and that which has given me cause to submit a formal complaint to the DVLA.
You have failed to comply with paragraph 9.4 of Schedule 4 of the Act in that you failed to give the Notice to Keeper to me within the “relevant period”.
The alleged infringement occurred on the ## September 2013 and no ‘Notice to Driver’ was issued at the time. The Notice to Keeper is dated ## October 2013 which is 19 days after the event and too late to ensure delivery within the statutory 14 days prescribed by PoFA.
Paragraph 9(4) indicates that the Notice to Keeper must be given to the registered keeper not more than 14 days after the car allegedly infringed the car park terms and conditions. Paragraph 9(6) states that “A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted”.
Your company would have been well aware of these facts when it took the decision to send out the Notice to Keeper under PoFA. You have misrepresented the legal position in the full knowledge that there can be no keeper liability.
That is an aggravating feature which the DVLA must take into account in determining what sanction to issue to your company.
I therefore expect you to immediately cancel the ‘parking charge’ and inform me, in writing that you have done.
If however, you reject this challenge, then, in accordance with the BPA Ltd AOS Code of Practice (version 2) 22.12, please ensure that you enclose all the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’) so that I may immediately refer this matter (and any further issues that I may subsequently raise) for their adjudication on the matter.
I do not expect to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you.
No further correspondence will be entered into.
Yours faithfully,
A N Other
>>END<<
NB: I'm not sure the 14 day rule has been missed. Thus far, I have never received a reply to this letter.
However, I received this letter from Roxburghe on Fri 15 Nov 2013:
>>START<<
Re: UNPAID PARKING CHARGE NOTICE ('PCN‘)
Our Client: APCOA PARKING (UK) LTD
Ticket Number: ##########
Total Amount Due: £128.00
Unauthorised Parking Event: 01-FAILING T0 PARK IN A DESIGNATED PARKING AREA.
We have been instructed by the above named client who has informed us that a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE was issued to the above-mentioned vehicle and the driver should have paid it. Our client has advised that they have not received payment or any valid dispute and therefore It is now too late to pay the discounted amount or
challenge this notice.
A notice was sent to you, as the registered keeper of the vehicle indicating that you could be liable for this charge If It remains unpaid, under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. This letter provides notification that you are now liable for the charge and that the Total Amount Due as shown above, is payable within the next 14 DAYS.
In line with the Terms and Conditions of parking at the above slte, recovery and administration charges have been incurred which are included in the Total Amount Due. Cheques should be made payable to Roxburghe (UK) Limited quoting our reference ######## on the reverse or you can contact 01932 332048 to arrange alternative payment options.
Yours sincerely
Steve Dargonne
Parking Services Manager
Roxburghe (UK) Limited
>>END<<
I would very much appreciate the Forum's expert advice and opinion. We're beginning to flap now, but having read all the threads I do not want to acquiesce.
Thanks very much in advance of any assistance and advice.
BE
0
Comments
-
Another day another ACPOA blatant disregard of appeals sent to them, this is a deliberate ploy by them and there are many cases of this happening for it to be a mistake or oversight, this is what they are doing deliberately.
Have you made complaints yet to the dvla & bpa ?When posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
We don't need the following to help you.
Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
:beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:0 -
Thanks for your reply.
No, not yet, I've seen the addresses for both the BPA and DVLA, but I couldn't find templates that I could use. Do you or anyone else know where I can find suitable templates?
Thanks again.0 -
There is no need for templates, just send a copy of your appeal, and a copy of the roxburghe letter, say that that they have not replied to your appeal, they are trying to circumvent pofa 2012 and by doing so not allowing you your legal right to use poplaWhen posting a parking issue on MSE do not reveal any information that may enable PPCs to identify you. They DO monitor the forum.
We don't need the following to help you.
Name, Address, PCN Number, Exact Date Of Incident, Date On Invoice, Reg Number, Vehicle Picture, The Time You Entered & Left Car Park, Or The Amount of Time You Overstayed.
:beer: Anti Enforcement Hobbyist Member :beer:0 -
Make sure in your complaint emails you remain as the registered keeper not the driver.
Details of the BPA and DVLA email addresses are on two sticky threads 'newbies' (post #1) and 'successful complaints' (post #3).
And people have reported eventually getting a response and POPLA code, 3 months down the line from APCOA do if you do get a POPLA code don't miss it, and make sure it's a winner as shown in the sticky threads.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Many thanks to Stroma and Coupon-mad, I'll post the outcome here for all that are interested. I have to admit, my partner wants us to pay as they can think it will just escalate. Does any one have some words of reassurance that this is worth fighting?
Thanks again,
BE0 -
Bunceless_Earner wrote: »Many thanks to Stroma and Coupon-mad, I'll post the outcome here for all that are interested. I have to admit, my partner wants us to pay as they can think it will just escalate. Does any one have some words of reassurance that this is worth fighting?
Thanks again,
BE
Do you think that regular advisers would be spending hours and hours of their own time coming back day after day, week after week, all on a totally voluntary basis, helping people they don't know from Adam (or Eve, to be absolutely PC) with advice that doesn't work?
There's no guarantees, but if you can find any thread from the past 6 months where newbies have followed forum advice that has put them in a worse position than that where they started, I'd like to see it.
Is this the reassurance you are looking for?Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
Bunceless_Earner wrote: »Many thanks to Stroma and Coupon-mad, I'll post the outcome here for all that are interested. I have to admit, my partner wants us to pay as they can think it will just escalate. Does any one have some words of reassurance that this is worth fighting?
Thanks again,
BE
Here we go:
Dear Bunceless Earner's partner:
'On this forum we win 100% of POPLA appeals'.
Does that figure convince you that this won't escalate?!PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Hi Umkomaas and Coupon-mad,
Reassurance level is now escalated to comforted!
Thank you.0 -
Dear folks,
As promised, but a tad belated, I said I would update you with any further developments and, guess what, it seems its been dropped!
However, I still receive calls from Roxburghe, where the simply hang-up on answering or after several rings. I've even got txt messages from them saying they tried getting in touch but could not and to urgently call them! I've not bothered, as they wont talk even if I answer their calls.
Anyway, I received the following from BPA earlier this month:
**********************
Dear Mr J R Hartley ;-),
Thank you for your e-mail received concerning the parking incident and related correspondence with APCOA Parking Ltd that you have sent to us. I can confirm that this organisation is a member of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme and as such is expected to adhere to our Code of Practice which you can review on our website – https://www.britishparking.co.uk.
If a member is found to be not compliant with the Code, they would be subject to our Sanctions Scheme where Operators can expect to receive a number of penalty points depending on the severity of the offence. As with driving offences, once an operator’s ‘licence’ has reached twelve points in any given 12-month period, then they are likely to be faced with suspension or expulsion.
This investigation has been concluded and I wanted to inform you of our findings.
APCOA Parking Ltd have responded to my request for information regarding your complaint.
The parking operator has confirmed that the parking charge notice does not mention the Protection of Freedoms Act and therefore the 14 days in which the act stipulates is not applicable.
The operator however, has agreed to cancel the parking charge notice in this instance, and therefore you will receive no further correspondence regarding this matter.
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and endeavouring to assist us in our efforts to drive up standards in the parking industry.
Yours sincerely
Approved Operator Scheme Team
**********************
So let's hope that's the end of it.
Many thanks to those that helped and reassured me it was worth standing up to them. I know it can be time consuming but it is worth it and the more people that share their experiences the easier it becomes for others to fight vultures like APCOA!
All the best for 2014,
BE0 -
You should keep all the Roxburghe letters & texts and then sue them with a quick MCOL for unwarranted harassment. You'd have to send them a warning first a 'Letter before Claim' then if they persist, you can make a couple of hundred as compensation for their hassle. Has been done.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0
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