SIP - county court summons

muffinman101

Had a ticket sent to me after someone borrowed my car and didn't see the sign in "SIP" carpark in manchester. THis was in March 2012, so as I understand, before the new laws regarding private car parks.
As I wasn't driving the car I ignored it.
Had a couple of letters from them, and ignored them too.
Much to my surprise they have now sent me a county court summons for which I have to fill in the form.
I can't find much information now about the 'loophole' regarding not having to disclose who was driving the car. Does that still apply to tickets issued in early 2012? Can I argue this on my form or not?
Thanks !
Muffinman

Coupon-mad

I can't find much information now about the 'loophole' regarding not having
to disclose who was driving the car. Does that still apply to tickets issued in
early 2012?

Yes, because the incident was before Oct 2012 you can argue that but be very careful you write only as the registered keeper.

See these threads:

Ed666

and

SpaceCowboy55

and

BlueMan

and learn from those, post any questions about the situation after that and also read this for the 'what happens when' questions:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/61084955#Comment_61084955

HTH

spacey2012

Have they mentioned POFA ?
File a personalised defence as in Space cowboys thread as early as possible so they know they are up for a fight.

muffinman101

Thank you for your prompt replies.
I've waded through the threads you posted, it looks like SIP are very County Court happy at the moment.
I must admit although I am not daft I am getting lost in some of the defence letters- pretty sure I can't construct anything that complex although have a friend who is a barrister who no doubt would be able to.
Other than the fact that I was not the driver at the time, and the penalty vs loss of income argument, what other points would be in my favour? In the claim letter they have stated that the PCN was received in early march but the NTO was sent in July- from reading the threads that would make it too late, no? Final notice on in August 2013. I haven't actually checked these dates on the correspondence- need to dig it all out.
THey have also changed the amount owed several times (both up and down).
Thanks again. All help gratefully received.
Muffinman

4consumerrights

Useful bullet point defence list below taken from another thread I gave - you need to read around and adapt to suit.

Defence bullet points:

• Contract between Parking company (SIP) and landowner (not a signed witness statement)
• Proof in contract that SIP have a proprietary interest and are legally able to pursue parking charges on behalf of landowner.
• Documentary evidence that SIP (or landowner) are not in breach of any local planning regulations particularly parking times and installation of ANPR system.
• Evidence that the ANPR is working accurately and correctly callibrated.
• Documentary proof that parking company are complying with legal obligations particularly in respect with paying business rates for the car park in question.
• Amount charged does not respresent a GPEOL for the alleged contravention - Request a breakdown of the parking charge for this loss. (Normal business running costs are not applicable but parking eye quote these - suggest in court that many of these are also tax deductible expenses)
• Tailor any other points e.g regarding signage - did you see it -
• Were there signs at car park entrance - you cannot enter a contract if you were unaware of its existence.
• Were the terms clear etc to you - you could bring in the fact that you were able to park with the landowners permission under the existing obligations between the landowner and the motorist which enabled you to park without any conditions or charges imposed upon you.
• Do you or anyone with you on the day come under any of the protected characteristics of Equality Act ....

This is just a general guide - do some reading on this forum to get further insight - BUT DO NOT MISS THE DEADLINE FOR SUBMITTING THE DEFENCE.

Read also this thead by guy's dad for POPLA appeal core points. Although it is POPLA - it can be adapted for court as the legalities and points apply also for court. - Read the whole thread.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816165

Buzby

As you weren't the driver, do what all hire firms do - get the hirer to pay it of fight it, as it isn't any concern of yours.

Coupon-mad

Buzby wrote: »

As you weren't the driver, do what all hire firms do - get the hirer to pay it of fight it, as it isn't any concern of yours.

It is too late when he already has small claim papers. He must defend it but should be easy bearing in mind all the info in the other threads (at least one of which was also pre-POFA).

The_Deep

Buzby wrote: »

As you weren't the driver, do what all hire firms do - get the hirer to pay it of fight it, as it isn't any concern of yours.

Still giving misleading advice Busboy, after all the times which you have been asked to desist:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4198909=

Of course it is his concern, he is the one being sued, Mke someone happy, !!!!!!.

muffinman101

Hi all,
So my defence was filed early. And I am now in possession of a date to attend a hearing. Not quite what I was planning really considering the amount I am being pursued for is quite a lot less than I could earn in a day, being self employed. I am not averse to going to court though. Anyone got this far before with "SIP" parking?

Coupon-mad

Well they always fold but not sure which stage - have another look at SpaceCowboy55's recent updates as they kept him dangling until quite late too. Interesting, and stupid of them, especially as you are the keeper and it was pre-POFA 2012, so you are NOT liable in law!

trisontana

Update.

I think this is the same case (from CAG):-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?412623-SIP-sent-me-county-court-papers-help!-deadline-approaching-**Claim-Struck-Out**

Just a quick update...received a letter from the court...judge has decided that the claim should be struck out as the claimant has no basis to claim anything against me and i owe them nothing. Another victory! Thanks for all the help everyone! And anyone else in future that received a parking charge notice ...fight it!