Letter received from DRP - ignore or respond?

NessasMum

Advice needed - On 23rd June (Sunday) at 3.30 pm I dropped my daughter at a party. I then went to the Co-op in the centre of Ossett parked up and did my shopping. Deciding then I couldn't be bothered to go home (about 20 mins drive away) before having to return to pick up my daughter I went for a short walk around the town centre before returning to the car park.

By this time the Co-op was closed and the car park was empty. I sat in the car reading the paper until it was time for the party to finish (not long after half five).

I received my first PCN from CEL dated 02/07/2013 a week or two later (I cant find this letter although I am sure I havent throw it away)

Mistakenly, after googling various forums, I took the 'hold my nerve and ignore' path - most of the advice I was reading was saying this and I made the decision that with it being a Sunday and the shop being closed they would not pursue it and thankfully, after receiving the second salmon pink notice on 23rd July saying the fine is £90, I heard nothing more.

Until today when I have received the letter from Debt Recovery Plus asking for £140.

I have read Daisy's advice that since ofcourse I am far too late now to start an appeal I should respond to this letter and she has kindly provided one to cut and paste. However reading further on that particular thread, the debate seems to get a bit muddy and I am confused as to whether the final consenus is to respond robustly or continue to ignore.

I cannot find any recent thread that seems to cover this scenario which is why I have started a new one. After all this sounds pretty steep for sitting in an empty car park on a Sunday evening.

Definite advice greatly appreciated - thanks.

nzpod

hey,

I am by no means an expert. I recently had a very similar question to you so thought I would share what I did.

I just (ie today) sent a letter off to DRP for a UKPC issue. I think that was the general consensus I got from the message boards. But could go either way.

Either way I am not to worried given UKPC's history.

Check out this for a laugh http://www.flickr.com/photos/89511704@N03/8145428304/lightbox/

HO87

nzpod wrote: »

hey,

I am by no means an expert. I recently had a very similar question to you so thought I would share what I did.

I just (ie today) sent a letter off to DRP for a UKPC issue. I think that was the general consensus I got from the message boards. But could go either way.

Either way I am not to worried given UKPC's history.

Check out this for a laugh http://www.flickr.com/photos/89511704@N03/8145428304/lightbox/

@NessasMum

An entertaining aside but as nzpod's case involved UKPC it isn't particularly relevant especially as CEL have become somewhat more litigious in the last 6 months or so.

You have long overshot the opportunity to appeal and so that avenue is no longer available. I suggest that you continue to ignore DR+. There is a good chance that the matter will die a death. In the unlikely event that you receive a letter from CEL (or solicitors acting for them) entitled Letter Before Action/Letter Before County Court Claim them return here quick smart for further guidance.

Coupon-mad

NessasMum wrote: »

Advice needed - On 23rd June (Sunday) at 3.30 pm I dropped my daughter at a party. I then went to the Co-op in the centre of Ossett parked up and did my shopping. Deciding then I couldn't be bothered to go home (about 20 mins drive away) before having to return to pick up my daughter I went for a short walk around the town centre before returning to the car park.

By this time the Co-op was closed and the car park was empty. I sat in the car reading the paper until it was time for the party to finish (not long after half five).

I received my first PCN from CEL dated 02/07/2013 a week or two later (I cant find this letter although I am sure I havent throw it away)

Mistakenly, after googling various forums, I took the 'hold my nerve and ignore' path - most of the advice I was reading was saying this and I made the decision that with it being a Sunday and the shop being closed they would not pursue it and thankfully, after receiving the second salmon pink notice on 23rd July saying the fine is £90, I heard nothing more.

Until today when I have received the letter from Debt Recovery Plus asking for £140.

I have read Daisy's advice that since ofcourse I am far too late now to start an appeal I should respond to this letter and she has kindly provided one to cut and paste. However reading further on that particular thread, the debate seems to get a bit muddy and I am confused as to whether the final consenus is to respond robustly or continue to ignore.

I cannot find any recent thread that seems to cover this scenario which is why I have started a new one. After all this sounds pretty steep for sitting in an empty car park on a Sunday evening.

Definite advice greatly appreciated - thanks.

Put the keyword 'Recovery' into the 'search this forum' header above the threads on the right on page one (just above the top sticky threads, next to 'forum tools'). Change the default search to 'show posts' not show threads.

Read the dozens of cases exactly like yours so far this month. Tell us when the Co-op CEO apologises and cancels it.

NessasMum

After 'robustly responding' to DRP and receiving yet another letter from them, I then decided to 'Appeal Anyway' to CEL and also email DRP referring them again to my earlier letter and again telling them to defer from writing to me.

I have now received a letter from DRP thanking me for my recent communication, telling me that 'as per BPA code of practice etc....the time to appeal was 28 days and has now expired' and saying they will refer the matter to their solicitors if I do not pay.

Having re looked at my original PCN, I notice the tiny writing at the bottom specifies that an appeal can be made and if rejected a POPLA code will be sent. The only reference to 28 days is in relation to receipt of payment of the charge.

A question - should I reply to DRP or CEL pointing this out to them and once again appealing or do I wait to see if any more correspondence comes.

Am I right to assume that DRP cannot apply to their solicitors as the PCN was not originally issued from them.

The_Slithy_Tove

BPA CoP doesn't stipulate that you MUST appeal within a certain time. They may have suggested time periods, but that doesn't make it mandatory. In any case, PPCs in general completely ignore the CoP when it suits them, so why not now? Oh, I know why, it doesn't suit them in this case.

If you want to be really picky with them, tell them that they have rejected your challenge (because of their made-up 28 day period), and section 22 of the same CoP says that if they reject your appeal or challenge, they must issue a POPLA code.

And you're right, DRP are not in a position to issue court proceedings. If they were dumb enough (which they are) to send a Letter Before Claim, they could be reported. You should ignore DRP from now on.

Half_way

Have you contacted the Co-op in question about this ridiculous charge?

NessasMum

I plan to go and see them on Wednesday when I am in the area.

NessasMum

After a sleepless night (I am prone to worrying) I have penned a reply to CEL stating why they cannot just ignore my challenge and are obliged to send me a validation code. See below.

Does this letter sound ok?
Can I check though that I am indeed ok to go to POPLA assuming they do issue me a code? (I notice a lot of talk on threads about 'too late to go the POPLA route')
Reading POPLAs website (where they also talk about 28 days to log the appeal) am I right that this 28 days is from the issue of the validation code and NOT from the actual incident date?

Any advice about what I should say to the Co-op manager tomorrow as well would be gratefully received. Many thanks.

I refer to my previous correspondence to you posted xxxxxxx and the subsequent letter I received from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd on xxxxxxx which was dated xxxxxxxxx.

The letter I received stated that since I had not replied with 28 days I had missed my opportunity to appeal to POPLA and referred me to the BPA Code of Practice Point 22.7. However this point only suggests that 28 days is a reasonable time scale and it is up to you to specify the actual time scale within which you will consider an appeal. Consequently, in reply, I would like to refer you to the small print on your original Parking Charge Notice that states :
'In England and Wales, if you make an appeal to us which we reject, we will send you the contact details for POPLA'
Further down in the small print it then states :
'In England and Wales if after 28 days from the Issue Date the PCN has not been paid or you have not provided us with the name and current address for service of the driver, we may have the right to recover from the Registered Keeper all unpaid amounts due'.
There is no mention that an appeal to you will only be considered if it is done within 28 days of the Issue Date or indeed within any time scale and therefore I once again specify that I am challenging this PCN and remind you that in accordance to the BPA Code of Practice Point 22.12 if you are rejecting this appeal then you are obliged to issue me with the validation code to refer the matter to POPLA.

1. There was no loss of business. As a free to park car park there would be no revenue generated by a ticket machine, and since it was a Sunday afternoon after the store had closed when the overstay occurred, the car park would have been empty so therefore no loss has been made by the store as there were no customers unable to park.
2. The fee is disproportionate. I also would say that this charge is a disproportionate penalty, which is unenforceable in law. According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In this case, the charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of £0, as the car park operates as free to park and shop. According to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, this charge should be reasonable and in line with the loss suffered by the business and since the store was closed, it would be impossible for you to prove any loss of business at all.

If you refuse to consider, or ignore my challenge and take court action instead, I will refer the court to the principles of Halsey v Milton Keynes NHS Trust and P4 Ltd v United Integrated Solutions plc regarding the allocation of costs.

Coupon-mad

''Any advice about what I should say to the Co-op manager tomorrow as well would be gratefully received.''


Already in the sticky threads, there's a whole sticky about successful complaints which I keep up to date every day...

CEL are not worth this worry as they always fold if they try an odd small claim and in your case the Co-op will cancel it anyway. Why not email the Co-op or just phone the Head Office number as per the advice in the sticky thread? Instead of wasting a stamp on CEL (unless the Co-op won't help).