Had my ESA Appeal today

limpymel

And lost!:(

What I found really weird, I've had two DLA Tribunals so I kinda know how things should go, was that the doctor virtually took over the appeal and kept on interrupting me when I was answering saying, 'I don't want to hear about that.' Or,'I'll ask about that later.' This completely ruined my train of thought and it's really easy to get me muddled.

Another thing, can anyone help me with this? She said the hearing was based solely on my condition on the day of the decision i.e 11th February 2013 and literally didn't want to hear anything on any other day which really does not make sense as some of the issues in question may not have related to that particularly day. Surely it should mean how I was up to that date or around about that day.

As I said it was weird with the doctor only asking all the questions and the judge nodding and the judge didn't ask a single question. He didn't even introduce the hearing etc.

Do you think I can appeal on the irregularity of it?

Mel

epitome

You can try to appeal to the upper tribunal first you should ask for a statement of reasons from tribunal.

The appeal is based on how you were on the 11th of February 2013, however, your condition on the 11th February may have included some medical condition which is worse on some days than others and on the 11th you might have been having a 'good' day. But they should have taken into account that at that time you had good and bad days.

The appeal definately would not take into consideration any different medical condition which first appeared after the 11th February. Nor would it consider any subsequent worsening of the your condition after the 11th February 2013.

limpymel

Thanks Ep for replying. Can I ask you whether they consider your condition before the 11th February i.e. from the date you made the application for ESA to the date of the decision? I don't understand why they are basing it on the solely the day of the decision in February when the Atos Assessment was in December. Surely there has to be other days to consider too.

I believe the doctor was taking a too literal view of the law and not relaying common sense. Who is there to verify how I was on the day in question? And what is the point of all the doctors' and consultants letters and the Atos Assessment if all that matters is a day nobody has any proper full recollection of?

epitome

limpymel wrote: »

Thanks Ep for replying. Can I ask you whether they consider your condition before the 11th February i.e. from the date you made the application for ESA to the date of the decision? I don't understand why they are basing it on the solely the day of the decision in February when the Atos Assessment was in December. Surely there has to be other days to consider too.

Yes they should be considering your condition -in the round- as it was from the start of your claim to the assessment date .... You should have asked them "Why base it on my condition on the Feb 11th if my assessment was in December?". If they have referred to this in the statement of reasons that is a good point of law that you think they have got wrong. for the upper tribunal to look at.

I believe the doctor was taking a too literal view of the law and not relaying common sense. Who is there to verify how I was on the day in question? And what is the point of all the doctors' and consultants letters and the Atos Assessment if all that matters is a day nobody has any proper full recollection of?

I agree.

limpymel

Thank you Ep.

I did question if they are only looking at my condition on the 11th February, a day that I can not remember, why not look at my condition on the day the Atos nurse made the decision and the days the consultants, doctors etc made theirs. I do feel this is an error of law but legal aid for appeals are no longer applicable and I will just write it as I see it and hope today's judge sees sense and sets his decision aside or if it goes to the UT, the UT judge can see it was a wrongful interpretation of the law.

Doctors shouldn't be stating what the interpretation of the law is in a tribunal anyway and I think the judge knew the doctor was wrong but was nodding and saying she was right so as to make them look competent.

epitome

Absolutely the Dr had no place interpreting the law. UT is free of charge.

But what are you saying? Were you saying that you had good days and bad days? Or were they asking about only the feb 11th -which to you is a random day- and you were saying you could not remember?

Of course the UT could agree with you that they were in error but nevertheless still not agree with you that you are entitled to ESA.

You know you can make a new claim to ESA right? Unless you were ESA C, in which case you may not be eligible for ESA IR.

limpymel

I've since gotten better and am now working part time so I can not make a claim for ESA. The judge said yesterday, 'If you were still unemployed I would be saying to you now, you have to sign on for JSA but since you already have a job, I guess that doesn't apply to you. Goodbye!'

I felt, what a cheek! They probably thought because I am working, I would not appeal against their decision, but I was ill for over a year and I had to go into debts to get myself the support I needed in order to get well. The truth is, the meagre money ESA/JSA brings in does not cover the costs of disability. And that money has to go towards the rent, council tax and water rates. I couldn't afford to heat my home properly when I was ill but I can now I am better and working. I needed additional support and unfortunately the system of making the sick survive on less funds, is in effect making them sick and sicker for longer.

I took out a loan in order to start work because although I now get funding via Access to Work for cabs, I still need to pay out for those cabs. Getting into employment when disabled costs more money. The extra disabled people should be getting via ESA would help.

The people making these decisions really don't get it. They think if they cut people's funding, they will automatically get well.

I really feel for someone who is still sick being treated the way I was yesterday. I remember having my ESA stopped after the Atos Assessment, but luckily in those days, I just went back onto ESA whilst appealing, with no need to go to the Jobcentre to sign on. I couldn't have handled signing on then. I went straight from ESA into work.

My heart is with those who are ill and in dire need of that extra funding and are being denied. I am pursuing that funding because I had to use credit cards to survive when I was ill. It may take me another year to get back to the position I was in yesterday again i.e. in front of a ESA Tribunal, as I feel I really do have a chance of getting this decision set aside or winning if I take it to the UT. And I am pursuing it not only to get the money I should have had back, but also as principle.

Sick people need to be supported by the State to wellness or just supported if they will never be well.

Best wishes to Ep and thanks for your advice and support.

Viberduo

limpymel wrote: »

The truth is, the meagre money ESA/JSA brings in does not cover the costs of disability. And that money has to go towards the rent, council tax and water rates. I couldn't afford to heat my home properly when I was ill but I can now I am better and working. I needed additional support and unfortunately the system of making the sick survive on less funds, is in effect making them sick and sicker for longer.

This is what I always think, I remember 12 years ago doing a 5 hour a week college course which had exams at start of January and even if I got a D+ I could go on to full time for 2nd semester therefore get a grant and sign off.

The Jobcentre called me in for a interview a week before christmas then twisted my response(they had a 2nd advisor there to lie for them) to say I did 40 hours a week at home study therefore was full time therefore got a loan so not entitled to JSA.

So for 6 months had to get in such debt I was thrown out of my bedsit and went round to homeless places each day for food and was so depressed I had thoughts of self harm despite never having them before.

And a few years ago a friend lost his part time job and they lost is P45/P60(get the 2 mixed up) twice despite him leaving college and getting a job same day(which he lost as not good enough) his mental health went down to the point of not getting out of bed and punching walls, was only when a family member let him move in with them he got better and surprise surprise he got a job the day after he moved in as he always wanted to work but the DWP rudeness and treatment stopped him getting work!

I also remember another time being offered a job after a 3 month course which was government approved for people on benefits and the jobcentre refused to let me go to it, and a few years before I was offered a place on Prince's Trust to help me with motivation as didnt leave house for a week and had no friends and jobcentre refused.

Crazy.

limpymel

Yes Viberduo, it is dreadful the way the DWP operates. I really hope that you are sorted now and if you are not, you are very soon.

We are all wonderful talented people with a lot to offer and need space to grow.

Just believe it will be okay even when it doesn't seem to make sense to.

Best wishes and don't let the barstewards get you down.

SomebodyToldMe

limpymel wrote: »

And lost!:(

What I found really weird, I've had two DLA Tribunals so I kinda know how things should go, was that the doctor virtually took over the appeal and kept on interrupting me when I was answering saying, 'I don't want to hear about that.' Or,'I'll ask about that later.' This completely ruined my train of thought and it's really easy to get me muddled.

Another thing, can anyone help me with this? She said the hearing was based solely on my condition on the day of the decision i.e 11th February 2013 and literally didn't want to hear anything on any other day which really does not make sense as some of the issues in question may not have related to that particularly day. Surely it should mean how I was up to that date or around about that day.

As I said it was weird with the doctor only asking all the questions and the judge nodding and the judge didn't ask a single question. He didn't even introduce the hearing etc.

Do you think I can appeal on the irregularity of it?

Mel

Very sorry to hear you lost this- I am waiting for my appeal myself- I thought if your condition worsens- you should still get ESA payments?
I would appeal again- good luck

limpymel

Good luck Some

I believe it 's also very much down to who you have on the day. This is my third DWP Tribunal and the second in which I have found the judge to have had an attitude. I won the second and lost the first and third.

I hope you get to appeal and win your appeal.

Best wishes

Mel