Warning: Don't get lost at Luton airport

shadowcat_2

Warning: Don't get lost at Luton airport, don't stop to read any signs to get your bearings & make sure you have £2 in the car.

Whilst trying to navigate by car around Luton airport entrance to find the drop off point last month I eventually found the small road off a roundabout leading to a short term car park. I pulled up 40ft before the entrance (no cars in front or behind) to read that I needed £2 for the privilege of using the car park & it was then that I realised I didn’t have £2 change, so let my sister out to catch her flight. 20 seconds later I was on my way.

Yesterday I received the 'notice’ from APCOA..in the post with 3 photos of my car showing my sister getting out, telling me I have to pay a £40 fine. Have I unwittingly committed an offense? Do I ignore the letter? google is your friend?

Having spent the best part of 4 hours trawling the web I am still confused.. I fail to understand how APCOA can still be functioning if what they do (fleecing) has been rejected/thrown out in many cases by POPLA etc. Is this company operating legally?

What exactly should I write for my particular scenario to be considered? Do I have a case? £40 quid for 20 seconds is by my calculation £7200 an hour!!!

I’m thinking ‘pay the fine, take it on the chin, get over it, get some sleep too’ rather than writing letters in a language I do not fully understand to organisations that may or may not grant me release from these people. Plus there’s the scary letters/calls (how do they get peoples telephone numbers?) from solicitors and debt collectors that may come in time.

Any help would be appreciated
–
Maybe I should copy Tallone's letter, though I don't fully understand it )-:
(apologies not allowed to link to Tallone's letter) its post 9 in subject 'APCOA Luton Airport'


Below is the full transcript of the notice from APCOA:

TO THE RESPONDANT (Me!)

PARKING CHARGE NOTICE
LONDON LUTON AIRPORT
APCOA PARKING
Charge notice number xxxxxxxxxx
Date of Issue of this notice 12/11/2013

Notice is hereby served to the registered keeper of vehicle registration mark XXXXXXX
For the alleged contravention of 02-Dropping off / Picking up outside of a designated parking area.
at LUTON AIRPORT on 30/10/2013 at 12:59

The alleged contravention is a BREACH OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE of the Airport road infrastructure and signs are clearly displayed throughout the area showing these terms and conditions.

Please note that the driver of the vehicle at the time of the breach of terms and conditions detailed
above is required to pay the parking charges in respect of the above and these have not yet been
paid in full.

As we do not know either the name of the driver or their current serviceable address, we request that you either pay the full amount outstanding as noted above; or if you were not the driver of the vehicle at the specified period provide us with the name of the driver and their current serviceable address and pass this notice onto them. If you have sold the vehicle, please provide us with the details of whom the vehicle was sold to as well as proof of sale. If you are a Hire Company please provide the name and serviceable address for the Hirer along with a statement signed by or on behalf of your firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement, a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement, within 28 days of the 'date given' above.

A charge of £80.00 is payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the 'date given' above. If the charge is paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the 'date given', the amount of the charge will be reduced by 50%.

The vehicle keeper data has been obtained from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (under
Regulation 27(l)(e) ofthe Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2002). They have provided the details above as the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date and time of issue of the Parking Charge Notice. If you believe your data has been used/provided inappropriately, you can notify the DVLA by contacting 0870 240 0010 .

Collection activity may result in increased charges and APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd may engage third party Debt Collectors or commence legal proceedings for the recovery of the charge together with all associated costs.

Should you wish to dispute the issuing of this Parking Charge Notice, you can do so in writing to the address listed below within 28 days from the 'date given' of this letter. All appeals must be directed to APCOA in the first instance. The Independent Appeals Panel- POPLA, may be engaged as a final avenue of recourse once APCOA's appeals process has been exhausted.
How To Pay
PLEASE VISIT: web address to make a secure online payment
Alternatively you can send a Cheque or Postal Order made payable to APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd to: APCOA PARKING,
PO BOX 1010,
MIDDLESEX,
UB89NT Or call 0845 303 7397 and speak to one of our operatives.

The_Slithy_Tove

Use the search facility (top right), look for Luton APCOA, and you'll find dozens of threads about them, and how to appeal (and win at POPLA), saving yourself the £100 and also the £2.

You don't ever need £2. They have no authority to charge you for stopping. Their (Luton Airport and APCOA) greed will be their undoing.

Guys_Dad

Lots of previous threads on Airport tickets and possibly some on the POPLA Decisions sticky thread as well, so searching (using the forum tools) is good.

You suggested you might take it on the chin. I don't think so!!

Here is a previous post I made that explains things as I see it.

Don't make the newbies' common mistake which is "I done wrong, guv, so they are right to charge me. How can I defend that??".

Our point is " regardless of the facts, PPCs are penalising motorists to a ludicrous extent to which they are not entitled and we concentrate on helping people based on that point"

Suppose you had been caught doing 35 mph in a 30 mph limit. You get to the Magistrates court and they say "Guilty. Lock him up for 2 years".

You would get a brief to appeal the sentence, not the verdict.

So that's the case here. You are appealing the "sentence" of £100 that does not fit the "crime",

So, you major on the "No genuine pre-estimate of loss" point.

Also, suppose the PPC didn't have the right to charge you 1p as they didn't have a valid contract with the landowner? So you demand that they produce the contract in question that actually specifies that they are allowed to charge you.

Going back to the "crime" of speeding. Suppose that there were no 30mph signs up and it wasn't obvious that you were in built up area. Would that be fair? So you challenge the signage of the park in question. Obviously the signage was inadequate or you would have seen it.

You need to follow coupon-mad's sticky thread on guidance for newbies. That will go some of the way.

Then you need a soft appeal to hook a POPLA code, and tghen a POPLA appeal.

Think of the appeals as an intellectual exercise in the manner of a crossword puzzle or a game of chess and it can be quite fun.

Obviously your eventual POPLA appeal will be aided by us (we want you to win to keep our tally up if nothing else).

Basically, that's it in a nutshell.

shadowcat_2

This post:
forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=63497339&highlight=#post63497339
has a letter which has had success but it points out the 'notice' wasn't received in time (which mine was) but it also says 'no specific identification of the “Creditor” in APCOA's letter is a fault - is this the part I should concentrate on?
- no specific identification of the “Creditor” -

It is not clear from APCOA's reply to the letter as to which part of it made them let him off, I'm innocently assuming it was the late notice issue that won this one - as has been in many cases reported in forums.

Sorry for being a bit thick, legal language isn't my forte. There are so many different circumstances which people have found themselves in to get these notices from APCOA - I just turned up, got lost, stopped & realised I didn't have money so dropped off.

Coupon-mad

I’m thinking ‘pay the fine, take it on the chin, get over it, get some sleep too’

Don't be daft, this isn't anything to lose sleep over. Do phishing emails cause you to worry as well?! Same scam, easily deleted.

Just appeal it come on, two stages and it's cancelled by POPLA if APCOA don't cancel it first time. Normally when you write a strong appeal letter as the registered keeper (not driver), like you see on other APCOA threads, you will find APCOA cancel.

Do not imply who was driving. Search the forum for Luton or APCOA and read them - recent threads, not random old stuff. There are two other APCOA treads on the go today already so they are hardly difficult to find and copy from.

shadowcat_2

Despite being a newbee of 8 yrs reading this forum (not allowed to post links) I am still confused with the posts and the language. I have read so many in the last few days and mostly I find all the info about those who received their 'notice' later than 14 days but I haven't been able to find any recent letter examples sent to APCOA referring ONLY to stopping for less than a minute at the airport.

So should I just write a "soft" or legal speak letter to APCOA saying:
"the fine is too much"
"you haven't mentioned POFA 2012"
there is 'no specific identification of the “Creditor” in your PCN' (parking charge notice)
"provide me with a POPLA code"…
…ALL this whilst writing in the third person not naming me as the driver?

PLEASE can anyone point me in the direction of an example letter to APCOA in the third person that I can view and edit relating to ONLY stopping for less than a minute? or do I just not mention that last fact?? As you can probably tell my confidence in letter writing isn't great - I could paint better (-:

GuysDad said - 'Think of the appeals as an intellectual exercise in the manner of a crossword puzzle or a game of chess and it can be quite fun.' - not right now it isn't. I'm starting to wish I hadn't posted for the second time in 8 years.

I charge £80 an hour in my job - thats £480 so far on this saga … the 40 quid fine is sounding quite appealing to someone who can't write letters in legal speak & in the third person. I guess these parking companies love iliterate dyslectics (-:

HO87

shadowcat wrote: »

Despite being a newbee of 8 yrs reading this forum (not allowed to post links) I am still confused with the posts and the language. I have read so many in the last few days and mostly I find all the info about those who received their 'notice' later than 14 days but I haven't been able to find any recent letter examples sent to APCOA referring ONLY to stopping for less than a minute at the airport.

So should I just write a "soft" or legal speak letter to APCOA saying:
"the fine is too much"
"you haven't mentioned POFA 2012"
there is 'no specific identification of the “Creditor” in your PCN' (parking charge notice)
"provide me with a POPLA code"…
…ALL this whilst writing in the third person not naming me as the driver?

PLEASE can anyone point me in the direction of an example letter to APCOA in the third person that I can view and edit relating to ONLY stopping for less than a minute? or do I just not mention that last fact?? As you can probably tell my confidence in letter writing isn't great - I could paint better (-:

GuysDad said - 'Think of the appeals as an intellectual exercise in the manner of a crossword puzzle or a game of chess and it can be quite fun.' - not right now it isn't. I'm starting to wish I hadn't posted for the second time in 8 years.

I charge £80 an hour in my job - thats £480 so far on this saga … the 40 quid fine is sounding quite appealing to someone who can't write letters in legal speak & in the third person. I guess these parking companies love iliterate dyslectics (-:

Really - you are worrying at this a tad too much but I understand where you are coming from. Let's noit get too hung on what APCOA may or may not be doing with regard to PoFA as the letter the OP has posted makes it clear that POPLA is an option. I therefore suggest that you send an appeal to APCOA along to the following lines making sure at all times to avoid providing any infromation that might identify the driver. The shorter the appeal to them the better, frankly. try something like:

Dear Sirs

Re PCN NO. XZXZXZXZXZ

I refer to the above notice received by me on 13 November 2013.

For the avoidance of doubt I am the owner of the vehicle concerned.

Your claim is denied and the issue of the pcn is therefore appealed on the following grounds:

1. At the time it is alleged the vehicle was parked it had been brought to a halt for the purposes of allowing a passenger to alight and by all acknowledged definitions doing so does not constitute parking. As a consequence no contract was formed and there can be no basis for the issue of your PCN.

2. Your claim for £100 is unreasonable, cannot be justified and represents a penalty.

If you reject this appeal please supply a POPLA code by return so that I might immediately refer matters for their consideration.

If you fail to follow any of the procedures outlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act (if applicable), or the requirements of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.

Yours faithfully,

Guys_Dad

shadowcat wrote: »

I charge £80 an hour in my job - thats £480 so far on this saga … the 40 quid fine is sounding quite appealing to someone who can't write letters in legal speak & in the third person. I guess these parking companies love iliterate dyslectics (-:

I understand that financial logic and, if you don't mind being unfairly dealt with, then the financial argument in your case is a strong one.

Not much more to be said, as you will have to spend another hour or so on doing the appeal and then a POPLA appeal as well.

On the other hand, you don't earn £80 every hour, 24/7. So you haven't spent £480 on this unless you spent 6 hours reading this forum etc when you could have been working and earning. And how you could have spent 6 hours so far is surprising.

So, ball is in your court and however you decide to proceed, I hope it's the right route for you.

shadowcat_2

Guys_Dad wrote: »

On the other hand, you don't earn £80 every hour, 24/7. So you haven't spent £480 on this unless you spent 6 hours reading this forum etc when you could have been working and earning. And how you could have spent 6 hours so far is surprising.

Good point..
I am an obsessive when it comes to solutions I don't know the answers to. That and hating with a passion the wrongs of others actions being considered right, correct or acceptable... and yes I have spent far too long on this.
When next week comes I will have no time at all to think or do anything about it as I will be working. All I want to know is how to justify my objection to what seems to be a scam without speeling legal terms I know nothing about. As this is wrong in my book. As I said before I just can't understand how a company can pxxx so many folk off without having the legal right to do so. Why are they still operating when so many have objected and been let off?
Rant over..
I'll gather some sanity from the post above from HO87 and compile a letter in the best way I can...

shadowcat_2

HO87 wrote: »

Really - you are worrying at this a tad too much but I understand where you are coming from. Let's noit get too hung on what APCOA may or may not be doing with regard to PoFA as the letter the OP has posted makes it clear that POPLA is an option. I therefore suggest that you send an appeal to APCOA along to the following lines making sure at all times to avoid providing any infromation that might identify the driver. The shorter the appeal to them the better, frankly. try something like:

Thank you H087 !!

Dear Sirs

Re PCN NO. XZXZXZXZXZ

I refer to the above notice received by me on 13 November 2013.

For the avoidance of doubt I am the owner of the vehicle concerned.

Your claim is denied and the issue of the pcn is therefore appealed on the following grounds:

1. At the time it is alleged the vehicle was parked it had been brought to a halt for the purposes of allowing a passenger to alight and by all acknowledged definitions doing so does not constitute parking. As a consequence no contract was formed and there can be no basis for the issue of your PCN.

2. Your claim for £40 is unreasonable, cannot be justified and represents a penalty.

If you reject this appeal please supply a POPLA code by return so that I might immediately refer matters for their consideration.

If you fail to follow any of the procedures outlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protection of Freedoms Act (if applicable), or the requirements of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.

Yours faithfully,

HO87

@shadowcat

Don't forget that the objective is to get APCOA to reject your appeal so that you can then appeal to POPLA.