offence 23/10 charge notice dated 12/11

Coupon-mad

white27 wrote: »

So what should be my next step ( they didn't mentioned car breakdown also )
how to fight ?

You have just GOT to send that terrible and lying reply from APCOA by email to the BPA and DVLA using the email addresses:

[EMAIL="steve.c@britishparking.co.uk"]steve.c@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL] (BPA - be aware they are not a regulator and they represent the PPCs, so do not divulge things like who was driving!)

and

[EMAIL="david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL] (DVLA, they WILL reply!)

Ask the BPA and DVLA how APCOA can get away with outright lying about keeper liability in a case that was not relevant land (Airport) and in any case you've already pointed out they sent the NTK too late for keeper liability anyway (and the NTK was not compliant with POFA). To make matters even worse APCOA have made up deadlines (6 months is irrelevant) and told you that they will only issue a POPLA code to the driver. Say that APCOA are misrepresenting the law (POFA 2012), stating wrongly that as keeper you are liable and yet denying you - the appealing keeper - a POPLA code which surely must be sanctionable behaviour for an AOS member. Ask to be advised of the outcome of their investigation.

You could also send a copy of your complaint email to APCOA saying 'See attached copy of my official complaint. Be advised that you are now under investigation by the DVLA and BPA Ltd., so I suggest you cancel this mess or send me a POPLA code now. Your staff need retraining about keeper liability and deadlines and you cannot send lies to the public.'

I would also be tempted to send a copy of it all to the local Luton Trading Standards Office and explain what the lies are in the letter and ask if they have a file on APCOA's business practices at Luton Airport - if not then they should, along with the (separate company) 'OnTime' illegal towing operation there. Luton Airport's parking enforcement regime needs an official investigation.

HO87

+1

I have given APCOA cases specific attention over the last few months after it became clear that they persistently failed to correctly interpret and apply POFA particularly in respect of delivery(service) deadlines for their Notices to Keeper at both LLA and Birmingham airports. Several complaints to the BPA Ltd and DVLA were made.

Subsequently, their paperwork was changed and - in relation to these locations - omitted any further reference to POFA. No explanation was offered by APCOA or BPA Ltd/DVLA but it was suspected, at the time, that this was due to the byelaws issue. Perhaps this was not the case and that it was felt that "education" was required - a common BPA Ltd sop offered to public complainants.

On the basis of this letter it looks as though any "education" has fallen on deaf ears and, if anything, has made things worse. The concern has to be that APCOA are not a small company and if this level of misunderstanding of the law is a demonstration of the norm at APCOA Towers then it is truly atrocious.

With respect any letter needs to be hard and very much to the point. And none too sweet.

APCOA
APCOA Towers
Wherever

Dear Sirs

Re Parking Charge Notice No XXXXXX

You are referred to the previous appeal and to your reply to it the contents of which have been noted. This response is both concerning and alarming.

You have failed to comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and, based on the contents of your response to the appeal, it is clear that your understanding of it is equally as doubtful which may underly your inability to comply with it.

Having failed to comply with the Act, as creditor you cannot enforce any alleged charge against the registered keeper and you therefore have no case. Furthermore, it is plain that your insistence that you will only consider an appeal from the driver is an attempt to circumvent the provisions of the Act and, in any event, is in breach of the British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice.

On any interpretation it is clear that you have rejected the representations made to you and, in accordance with the British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme Code of Practice you should now provide a POPLA code.

You should therefore provide one of the following within the next 14 days, either:

a. A valid POPLA code and details of how to make an appeal to them
b. Details of any further appeals mechanism you may operate and how a further appeal may be made and how it will then be handled by you
c. A letter of cancellation of the charge

If you fail to provide one or other of the above within the time-scale set out then the matter will be considered closed. Should you fail to provide one of the foregoing and you persist in pursuing this unwarranted and unenforceable charge then notice is hereby given that any further demand for payment will be regarded as harassment and the right is reserved to issue proceedings without further recourse to you. If you are in any doubt as to your legal liability in this matter then you should seek legal advice.

Additionally, your attention is drawn to the Civil Procedure Rules Part 44, in relation to the matter of costs, and the consideration a court may give to a party's conduct when making an award. Should it become necessary it is intended to provide the court with copies of all correspondence and in particular your statements concerning the applicability or otherwise of the Protection of Freedoms Act in order to assist them in assessing your pursuit of this matter. The right to make an application for an award of exemplary damages is reserved.

For the avoidance of doubt you should now regard yourselves as being on notice.

Yours faithfully

As C-M has suggested you really should make complaints to the BPA Ltd and the DVLA providing them both with copies of the letters you have received.

white27

Just received a POPLA code and details of how to make an appeal to them.
Grounds of appeal

The grounds under which you can appeal the parking charge notice are as follows:

The vehicle was not improperly parked: e.g. that the vehicle was not parked where stated on the parking charge notice; that you believe you were still within the time you paid for; that the voucher was clearly displayed or that the conditions were not properly signed.
The parking charge (ticket) exceeded the appropriate amount: e.g. that you are being asked to pay the wrong amount for the parking charge or that the charge has already been paid.
The vehicle was stolen: e.g. that the vehicle was improperly parked after being stolen. However, the fact that someone else was driving your vehicle, for example a family member, friend or colleague, is not in itself a valid ground of appeal. The fact that you told the driver that they could only use your vehicle on condition they did not get any parking tickets is not a valid ground of appeal.
I am not liable for the parking charge: e.g. that you had sold the vehicle before, or bought it after, the alleged improper parking. However, the fact that you had paid to park the vehicle in the first place (even if, for example, the voucher was not clearly displayed) is not in itself a valid ground of appeal.

So do I have any chance to win?

Redx

should be easy enough to win now that you have a popla code

just look for similar winning appeals linked from the NEWBIES thread , ideally for this airport and APCOA

bod1467

You tick 3 of those 4 boxes - they all apply except Stolen.

white27

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You have just GOT to send that terrible and lying reply from APCOA by email to the BPA and DVLA using the email addresses:

[EMAIL="steve.c@britishparking.co.uk"]steve.c@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL] (BPA - be aware they are not a regulator and they represent the PPCs, so do not divulge things like who was driving!)

and

[EMAIL="david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL] (DVLA, they WILL reply!)

Ask the BPA and DVLA how APCOA can get away with outright lying about keeper liability in a case that was not relevant land (Airport) and in any case you've already pointed out they sent the NTK too late for keeper liability anyway (and the NTK was not compliant with POFA). To make matters even worse APCOA have made up deadlines (6 months is irrelevant) and told you that they will only issue a POPLA code to the driver. Say that APCOA are misrepresenting the law (POFA 2012), stating wrongly that as keeper you are liable and yet denying you - the appealing keeper - a POPLA code which surely must be sanctionable behaviour for an AOS member. Ask to be advised of the outcome of their investigation.

You could also send a copy of your complaint email to APCOA saying 'See attached copy of my official complaint. Be advised that you are now under investigation by the DVLA and BPA Ltd., so I suggest you cancel this mess or send me a POPLA code now. Your staff need retraining about keeper liability and deadlines and you cannot send lies to the public.'

I would also be tempted to send a copy of it all to the local Luton Trading Standards Office and explain what the lies are in the letter and ask if they have a file on APCOA's business practices at Luton Airport - if not then they should, along with the (separate company) 'OnTime' illegal towing operation there. Luton Airport's parking enforcement regime needs an official investigation.

I have sent email to them - no reply yet. ( over 2 weeks ) do you think that they still going to reply? or I should contact them again.
Regards
Peter

Coupon-mad

white27 wrote: »

Just received a POPLA code and details of how to make an appeal to them.
Grounds of appeal

The grounds under which you can appeal the parking charge notice are as follows:

The vehicle was not improperly parked: e.g. that the vehicle was not parked where stated on the parking charge notice; that you believe you were still within the time you paid for; that the voucher was clearly displayed or that the conditions were not properly signed.
The parking charge (ticket) exceeded the appropriate amount: e.g. that you are being asked to pay the wrong amount for the parking charge or that the charge has already been paid.
The vehicle was stolen: e.g. that the vehicle was improperly parked after being stolen. However, the fact that someone else was driving your vehicle, for example a family member, friend or colleague, is not in itself a valid ground of appeal. The fact that you told the driver that they could only use your vehicle on condition they did not get any parking tickets is not a valid ground of appeal.
I am not liable for the parking charge: e.g. that you had sold the vehicle before, or bought it after, the alleged improper parking. However, the fact that you had paid to park the vehicle in the first place (even if, for example, the voucher was not clearly displayed) is not in itself a valid ground of appeal.

So do I have any chance to win?

Wow you typed all that out (we know what it says, this is standard rubbish - written by the BPA it seems, and POPLA use their words!). You seem to have believed it was set in stone? Read this:

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/secret-reasons-you-can-use-in-your.html

Concentrate now on winning your POPLA appeal, never mind the complaint...I expect the BPA did give the PPC a prod anyway as you've now got a POPLA code out of the blue!

Please now read the 'Private Parking ticket? Newbies read this first' sticky thread for how to win. Then you can show us your draft POPLA appeal based on the examples.

HO87

@OP

I sincerely hope you are keeping all of the correspondence on this. For all their trumpeting that they are "...parking management specialists" if that letter is anything to go by then the only thing they are specialists at is not being specialists. You couldn't make it up!

The links C-M is pointing you towards include well-proven drafts for winning at POPLA and, to be honest, against APCOA it isn't going to be too difficult. Don't give in just yet - a little bit of reading will see you there.

As C-M says, forget the complaint for the moment, just focus on that appeal.

white27

I have appealed to POPLA and month after that I have received letter that APCOA canceled PCN !!!!
I hope that someone will do something with them as I didn't get any feedback from DVLA or BPA.....
Thanks again for your help

Coupon-mad

Well done, did POPLA find in your favour on a point of law like 'no GPEOL', or did APCOA give up?