offence 23/10 charge notice dated 12/11

white27

I have received today (13/11/2013) Parking charge notice - London Luton Airport for the breach of terms and conditions of use offence that happened on 23/10/2013.
I'm not 100% sure if I understand it correctly but if the notice was issued more than 14 days after the offence date I can Appeal it and there is a chance that I don't need to pay it?
Please help me.

Stroma

Its not an offence unless issued by the police, is it acpoa who ticketed you ?

white27

Stroma wrote: »

Its not an offence unless issued by the police, is it acpoa who ticketed you ?

ACPOA issued the notice.
I have stopped on bus stop for about 3-5 min. as my car started overheating and after 3-5 min I have moved my car to mid term carpark for about 10 min ( then I was able to travel and I have parked for 45 min on short term carpark )

Stroma

Okay a couple more questions for you

1) Did you get the Notice to Keeper within 14 days?
2) Are you the registered keeper?
3) Do you or your car live in Scotland or NI?
4) Does your letter mention the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012?

Thanks

Guys_Dad

Just so you understand the 14-day rule.

If the PPC doesn't get the NtK into your hands within 14 days, then keeper liability as specified under POFA 2012 is lost.

That means they have to chase the driver and you do not have to inform them who it was. Again, that's why we always suggest appealing as the keeper, but referring to the driver in the 3rd person.

However, if they have a picture of you driving, then the 14 day rule is irrelevant as they can pursue you.

They cheat, of course, and back date NtKs and blame the post for late delivery.

Answer Stroma and we can help.

white27

Stroma wrote: »

Okay a couple more questions for you

1) Did you get the Notice to Keeper within 14 days?
2) Are you the registered keeper?
3) Do you or your car live in Scotland or NI?
4) Does your letter mention the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012?

Thanks

1) I got the notice after 20 days.
2) I am the registered keeper
3) car is registered in Leicestershire
4) there is no mention the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

white27

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Just so you understand the 14-day rule.

If the PPC doesn't get the NtK into your hands within 14 days, then keeper liability as specified under POFA 2012 is lost.

That means they have to chase the driver and you do not have to inform them who it was. Again, that's why we always suggest appealing as the keeper, but referring to the driver in the 3rd person.

However, if they have a picture of you driving, then the 14 day rule is irrelevant as they can pursue you.

They cheat, of course, and back date NtKs and blame the post for late delivery.

Answer Stroma and we can help.

I have the letter dated (12/11/2013) offence date was (23/10/2013)
there is no photo of the driver as it was taken from long distance, and driver haven't walked out of the vehicle.

Guys_Dad

Some others may say that POFA 2012 doesn't apply. I am not sure of that argument, but here is my suggestion for starters.


Dear Sirs,
Your ref etc..........

I am the keeper of the above vehicle and I am challenging your PCN on two grounds.

The first is your extortionate charges. The £100 non- discounted charge demanded vastly exceeds any genuine pre-estimate of loss and I will develop that point should this proceed to POPLA

The second is even more outside the rules so to speak.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 is absolutely specific about the time scale that you MUST follow when issuing a notice to owner/keeper. I refer you to the relevant section

9 (4)The notice must be given by—

(a)handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b)sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.

(5)The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.

(6)A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales.

I invite you to check the relevant dates of the alleged contravention and the Notice to Keeper. You will see that you have failed to adhere to the lawful time period and I am not, therefore, obliged to name the driver or accept the charge. I believe that this is a regular occurrence for your company and that the BPA take a dim view of this.

I invite you to accept this as my formal appeal and either cancel the charge or send me a POPLA code so that I may appeal to the independent adjudicator and you can attempt to convince the BPA, who I will notify, that your adherence to the POFA timescales somehow don't apply to you .

Yours faithfully,


The Keeper

Coupon-mad

APCOA may not have used a POFA 2012 version of an NTK anyway.

Read this because shockingly, the DVLA have started to allow PPCs to operate a 2 tier system (despite the intentions of POFA 2012):

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...ded&pid=819953

...and have a look at your NTK because APCOA have changed theirs over the last couple of months on Airport sites which do not fall within POFA 2012 as 'relevant land'. If it doesn't mention POFA 2012 then it isn't a ticket that can be enforced against a registered keeper.

So send Guys Dad's suggested appeal, keep the driver completely anonymous at all times and then come back for advice when you get your POPLA code (or tell us when APCOA throw in the towel which they often do when sussed!).

HO87

I believe that APCOA are reverting to the pre-POFA system for a number of reasons - not just the fact that as airport land is inevitably subject of byelaws it cannot therefore be "relevant land". Firstly, because the incidents for which their PCN's are issued are not "parking events" (among other things, stopping for the purposes of allowing passengers to alight or board a vehicle has long been established as not being parked) and secondly they seem unable to get NtK's out within the 14-day time-scale.

Aside from the fact that they are excluding themselves from the "benefits" of POFA their PCN's are clearly intended as a deterrent to certain behaviour/activity and as APCOA make it clear that the PCN's are for breaches of terms and conditions using them as a deterrent renders them unenforceable.

Stroma

But if they say that they use popla for these tickets, doesn't that mean they must use pofa 2012 in the first place? I think that each time that the dvla released RK details that doesn't use pofa2012 a complaint should be made to ICO for misuse of data.

A two tier system is shocking, these companies signed up to this, they should either be using all the provisions under pofa, or if they don't subscribe to that in all their dealings, lose the ability to get RK completely.