0871 Consultation - Important News

bbb_uk

shoi wrote: »

My suggested 80% solution to all phone rip-offs

Once you dial the call, your service provider, the one you pay your phone bill to, must have a robot message saying 10pence per minute, or 2p, or 50p, whatever. Even before the ring tone.

I agree with that however the main use of 0871 is that the company earns revenue without in most cases the consumer being aware of it.

As a consumer, I believe I have a right to know if I'm paying a premium rate to a company who are getting revenue from the call regardless of what this revenue is used for.

If it was widely known that all 087x numbers earn the company/organisation, etc called a revenue then there would be complaints because consumers wouldn't stand for it. This has happened to a certain degree with 0870 and the publicity surrounding it. However, this publicity really only focuses on 0870 and not 0871, nor the other number ranges.

Hence why many companies use these numbers and a lot of starting migrating to 0871. Simple - for the revenue and not the advanced network features and because consumer awareness of the cost (at this time) and the fact that the company called earns revenue is not known in most cases.

bunking_off

But the new ICTSIS rules for 0871 will defacto mean that pricing information has to be published in the same way as it is for 090. Companies using 0871 without putting the pricing information alongside will be subject to fines, and in the extreme under the latest Ofcom proposals barred from having any more telephone numbers. That won't be in place until next year, but realistically none of the major companies migrating to 0871 are doing so to exploit a short term period before it's introduced : it costs a fortune to change a number - good news for printers & signwriters but not for anyone else.

My main gripe with this whole debacle is that it could have been organised to mandate the same pricing information/penalties with 0870. Instead, companies have been shunted from 0870 to 0871 or 0844, which costs money. There's only one way these costs are going to be recovered, which is out of your & my pocket.

bbb_uk

bunking_off wrote: »

My main gripe with this whole debacle is that it could have been organised to mandate the same pricing information/penalties with 0870. Instead, companies have been shunted from 0870 to 0871 or 0844, which costs money. There's only one way these costs are going to be recovered, which is out of your & my pocket.

I know changing numbers costs a bit but companies have done this when they changed from geographical to an 084x/087x.

I'm also of the agreement there may be a genuine need for these numbers however these numbers are used mostly for the fact that they earn the company/gov dept, etc money without the consumer being aware of it hence the reason why I refer to them as stealth premium rate.

Just having pricing information is one thing but unless consumers are aware that the company called is in all likelyhood receiving money from the call then they I believe us consumers should be made aware of this. If consumers once being aware that the company they ring is receiving money from the call and the cost of the call (at least from a BT landline) then that's fine as consumers can't argue so much about cost, etc later on.

Most (if not all) consumers are aware that 09x are premium rate and therefore the company called receives money from the call but only a small number of consumers are aware of this fact when it comes to 084x/087x numbers.

A company wanting genuine network features, etc and NOT the revenue could choose an 0845 and not an 0844 (at 5p/min as it seems a popular pricing point), 0870 or 0871.

If companies are after the revenue then they should choose an 09x however many companies receive complaints over their use of such numbers and to avoid this use 087x so they can quietly continue to receive their revenue.

Simply stating that 0871 is 10p/min is not informing the consumer that they are in fact ringing a premium rate line and the company they are calling is receiving money from the call. To most consumers they'd only see this as a number that costs more than ordinary landlines.

I want better consumer awareness of these number ranges because as a consumer myself I should be fully aware that if I ring a certain number then the company concerned is receiving money from the call. Both ICSTIS and Ofcom want to avoid consumers knowing this and the main reason for this is that companies would complain because their customers would be aware they are receiving revenue from the call.

Heinz

bbb_uk wrote: »

I'm also of the agreement there may be a genuine need for these numbers however these numbers are used mostly for the fact that they earn the company/gov dept, etc money without the consumer being aware of it hence the reason why I refer to them as stealth premium rate.

And the government is one of the worst offenders (making the UK the subject of ridicule in the USA too):

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1821.asp

DonnyDave

bunking_off wrote: »

But the new ICTSIS rules for 0871 will defacto mean that pricing information has to be published in the same way as it is for 090. ...

Will it?

I thought that at present only 09 numbers that cost 25p or more per minute or per call had to display pricing information.

bunking_off

DonnyDave wrote: »

Will it?

I thought that at present only 09 numbers that cost 25p or more per minute or per call had to display pricing information.

Actually, it's 50p total call cost (section 5.7.5 of the ICTSIS 11th Code), however in practical terms because numbers can be dialled from mobiles - at higher cost - the norm is to provide pricing info at all times.

DonnyDave

bunking_off wrote: »

Actually, it's 50p total call cost (section 5.7.5 of the ICTSIS 11th Code), however in practical terms because numbers can be dialled from mobiles - at higher cost - the norm is to provide pricing info at all times.

So the price is higher than I quoted which makes it even worse.

Will ICSTIS make service providers display pricing information for all 09 numbers if it is to do so with 0871?

everythingblogcast

So it fax 0871 numbers costing 10p or National rate. It really doesnt matter as it will be used for companies to fax me. lol

derrick

everythingblogcast wrote: »

So it fax 0871 numbers costing 10p or National rate. It really doesnt matter as it will be used for companies to fax me. lol

THERE IS NO NATIONAL RATE! Calls to 01/02 numbers cost the same,(price depends on your telco), regardless of distance.

0871 depends on the rest of the number, but most cost 10ppm at ALL times.

bunking_off

DonnyDave wrote: »

Will ICSTIS make service providers display pricing information for all 09 numbers if it is to do so with 0871?

Think you miss my point. The proposal from ICSTIS is that from a price display perspective 0871 will be treated the same as 09.

On 09, the rule is that if the call is likely to be more than 50p total call cost the pricing information has to be displayed. However, in practical terms because this includes calls from mobiles (which tend to charge more than BT both for 0871 and 090), the pricing information has to be provided pretty much whenever any 09 number is advertised. If the current proposals are adopted, this will also apply for 0871.