Scared - Parking Eye Northampton Court claim form

CuriousGem

Hi

I know there are quite a few threads on here about court cases and I have tried reading a number but I'm becoming overwhelmed by the amount of acronyms I don't understand.

I have received a court claims form for Northampton from Parking Eye (PE). They say I overstayed by 16 mins at Brent Cross shopping centre. Until now I have received one parking charge notice and one reminder from PE, then nothing until this claim form. I received it while I was on holiday so have acknowledged it to give me a bit longer to sort it out. I thought a bit of research on here would help sort me out but now I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed and panic. I can't even see a court date on the papers. Are there any particular threads most worth looking at to get help? I read somewhere that there is no standard response to cases like this.

What's the worst case that can happen? I can't afford the £165 they're currently asking for but a CCJ against my name and a massive court fine would be worse.

Thanks for your help

Coupon-mad

You won't see a court date yet nor even your local court mentioned yet. This is just the claim (early stages). Most people who get these NEVER end up with a hearing and recently many have been lost by ParkingEye or dropped.

Start by reading traindriver's thread as he started like you and has got a long way further along the process:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4731585

and you'll see we've shown him the recent wins and positive (for the driver or keeper) outcomes in Parking Eye cases. THIS IS NOT A TIME TO FOLD AND PAY.

Also read the 'Successful Complaints about PPCs' sticky because as this was a Rertail Park and a minor few minutes 'alleged overstay' forgive me for asking: what on earth is the reason for (presumably) not complaining to Store Managers on site and the managing agents of Brent Cross shopping centre?!! if the driver/passenger were genuine customers that would be the first thing to do and IS NOT TOO LATE! That's how lots of these stupid claims get cancelled as you'll see from the cases in red on the sticky thread!

Also read the 'Small Claims & PPCs' sticky thread of course.

Finally, did you have a COMPLIANT 'LBCCC'? Read the LBCCC sticky thread as well (sticky threads are permanently 'stuck' at the top of any forum). It explains what a LBCCC is (so please don't reply 'what's a LBCCC'!) and what that important letter should have communicated to you. If not compliant that's one of many points of defence.

You do know that having acknowledged the claim you have ONLY extended the total time to submit your defence to 28 days from service of the papers to you? Not 28 days extra from acknowledging...so don't miss your deadline whilst waiting for an answer to your URGENT complaints in person and in writing to Brent Cross shopping centre.

CuriousGem

Thank you for responding.

I have not received an LBCCC. I received the initial charge notice and one reminder, that's all. I have also not tried contacting the shopping centre but will do so asap, in case that helps.

With regard to the 28 days, I was on holiday when I received the original letter so acknowledged to get more time. However I stuck my head in the sand for a bit and time is now very rapidly running out. That was stupid I know. How can I begin to know on what grounds I can fight this? I was going to go with the charge being excessive, not representative of the losses incurred by the free carpark and amounting to a penalty. From what I've read on here that's not enough but I don't know what else to say.

Also, what could be the worst case? Is it the £165 they are asking for or could it be more?

Coupon-mad

I have also not tried contacting the shopping centre but will do so asap, in case that helps.

'In case it helps'?

No, we are not saying just randomly contact them and ask if they 'can help'! GET ANGRY about this agent - they have been contracted either by the Store or by the landowner/management of the retail park so COMPLAIN to them assertively! I did tell you about 3 sticky threads to read at the top of the parking forum (I will not link them, you need to be able to find sticky threads and I have told you where they are and what they are called!).

Imagine if an agent of the shops tried to extort money from you for dropping your receipt on the floor, you'd think it was ridiculous, wouldn't be fooled into thinking it was a real fine and you wouldn't let it lie without a complaint would you? Why are people such pushovers just because this agent impersonates a parking ticket (rather than a fictional litter ticket!).

With regard to the 28 days, I was on holiday when I received the original letter so acknowledged to get more time. However I stuck my head in the sand for a bit and time is now very rapidly running out. That was stupid I know. How can I begin to know on what grounds I can fight this? I was going to go with the charge being excessive, not representative of the losses incurred by the free carpark and amounting to a penalty. From what I've read on here that's not enough but I don't know what else to say.

As I said, read other threads and count yourself lucky if the PPC hasn't gone ahead and got a default judgment against you for not submitting a skeleton bullet point defence within 28 days of service of the papers.

Here's just two - read all links here - but this is up to you to search & read other threads about:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4587137

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62971894&postcount=65



There are LOADS of threads about small claims from PPCs on pepipoo, read every court claim Northampton thread going back AT LEAST 10 PAGES here, read EVERY PE small claim thread and all links/advice:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=60

Also, what could be the worst case? Is it the £165 they are asking for or could it be more?

Usually £200 if they win (and as you can see from the links above they are looking less and less likely to win when you know about the flawed witness statement/contract irregularities and learn what to put in a defence).

So you can see why this is not a time to fold and pay when you are either looking at £165 or £200, hardly any different and the latter has a good chance of you paying NOTHING. You are going to have to draw up some bullet points from your reading over the weekend and then post them here to check you have some good points. Don't make it up, put it together from what you read on threads here and on pepipoo over several hours of research.

If you are close to your 28 days you are going to need to get the defence sent in (electronically if you've acknowledged the claim that way) on Sunday/Monday.

I have not received an LBCCC. I received the initial charge notice and one
reminder, that's all.

You must surely have had a Letter before Action or LBCCC? Did anyone throw it away?

4consumerrights

CuriousGem wrote: »

Hi

I know there are quite a few threads on here about court cases and I have tried reading a number but I'm becoming overwhelmed by the amount of acronyms I don't understand.

What's the worst case that can happen? I can't afford the £165 they're currently asking for but a CCJ against my name and a massive court fine would be worse.

Thanks for your help

What acronyms don't you understand?

PPC = Private parking company
GPEOL = Genuine pre-estimate of loss
LBCCC/LBC/LBA = Letter before county court claim/letter before clam/letter before action.
BPA (CoP) = British Parking Association (Code of Practice)
AOS = Approved operators (belonging to BPA)
POPLA = Parking on Private Land Appeals
POFA 2012 = Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (gave the right to pursue registered keepers under appendix 4 of the Act)

The worst that can happen is that you fail to submit your defence in time to (hopefully) win your court case and Parking eye win by a default judgment. A CCJ will only be registered against your name if you lose and do not pay within 28 days:

Defence bullet points:

• Contract between Parking Eye and landowner (not a signed witness statement)
• Proof in contract that parking eye have a proprietary interest and are legally able to purue parking charges on behalf of landowner.
• Documentary evidence that Parking Eye (or landowner) are not in breach of any local planning regulations particularly parking times and installation of ANPR system.
• Evidence that the ANPR is working accurately and correctly callibrated.
• Documentary proof that parking eye are complying with legal obligations particularly in respect with paying business rates for the car park in question.
• Amount charged does not respresent a GPEOL for the alleged contravention - Request a breakdown of the parking charge for this loss. (Normal business running costs are not applicable but parking eye quote these - suggest in court that many of these are also tax deductible expenses)
• Tailor any other points e.g regarding signage - did you see it -
• Were there signs at car park entrance - you cannot enter a contract if you were unaware of its existence.
• Were the terms clear etc to you - you could bring in the fact that you were able to park with the landowners permission under the existing obligations between the landowner and the motorist which enabled you to park without any conditions or charges imposed upon you.
• Do you or anyone with you on the day come under any of the protected characteristics of Equality Act ....

This is just a general guide - do some reading on this forum to get further insight - BUT DO NOT MISS THE DEADLINE FOR SUBMITTING THE DEFENCE.

CuriousGem

Thank you so much for taking the time to make that list. I will research thoroughly.

I said in case it helps because I'm cutting it close to the deadline to submit a defence but based on what I've been reading and you've said this is only the first step so there is still time. I have asked my friend to contact the shop, as she is the customer. I have not yet exceed the 28 days.

No, I did not receive an LBCCC or LBA. The neighbours may have taken it by mistake but I never received anything like that.

CuriousGem

If I use something like the equality act as part of the defence (my passenger was 7 months pregnant at the time, that's why we were there) do I need to give that now or do I just say I can provide evidence to that effect?

Coupon-mad

A bullet point skeleton defence gives ALL the bullet points you intend to rely upon. If it gets to a hearing you then add meat to the bones of the skeleton.

You should be going for the landowner/retailer if the driver/passenger was pregnant. You could even counter-claim and require that Brent Cross Retail Park is be added into the claim which would force it to a hearing I believe. You'd have to ask the local court for guidance on counter-claiming at this stage of defending - but it costs you a fee (reclaimable of course).

I suspect if you tell the Retail Park management that you are about to do that, it might focus Brent Cross' minds on cancelling this charge. I would send a VERY STRONG letter to PE and to Brent Cross, along the lines in this thread which was here all the time for you to read (it's on the successful complaints sticky thread which I told you about already above, so I assume you skim-read it but missed the importance of complaints and all the examples already there for you to copy?):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4762460

You would need to read up on the indirect discrimination section of the Equality Act 2010 because it's the time limit that is at fault and results in indirect discrimination, which is against the Equality Act Statutory Code of Practice for Service Providers which became law in April 2011. In your case = indirect sex discrimination against a section of the female population (pregnant and nursing mothers).

DO NOT get talked into paying anything at all, this is not your fault. PE might send a letter asking for some random costs because you ignored their pathetic charge. Your answer is = you ignored the Equality Act and made no allowance of time for customers with protected characteristics (which includes pregnant ladies) so that failure is all yours, PE.

If Brent Cross reckon they will cancel it make sure you STILL submit a skeleton defence anyway or you could get a default judgment; the court process continues until formally stopped. So this week, do your defence and your complaint letter to both parties. I reckon you'll be reporting this one as cancelled without a hearing quite soon.

CuriousGem

Thank you both for your time and for clarifying what I need to do next. I think I have a skeleton defence now. The fact my friend was pregnant (it's so long ago the baby's 4 months old now) is my first point. I'm not sure it's as eloquent as some as I've not gone to town with quotations but it does cover a number of the points you've listed. I will work out whether I can fit it in online or need to send the paper version.
I must admit, I tried reading as many threads as I could but I got a bit overwhelmed. It's hard to know which ones do/don't apply - for example I didn't complain to POPLA in time and I never received a LBA so I focused on the other threads first.

Coupon-mad

You can show your skeleton defence here and we can help fine-tune it. PE will see it soon enough and are losing quite a few cases now. There's more to include in a defence than you may think, as well:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62971894&postcount=65

Look at the ones recently lost by PE, learn from them and add a point about these new winning issues too (ANPR synchronisation, and irregularities with witness statements and cite cases like the Sharma case), as well as never getting a LBCCC so they've failed to follow the Practice Direction, and failed to adhere to the Equality Act 2010 and EHRC Statutory Code of Practice regarding that law.

CuriousGem

I'm a bit loathe to post word-for-word what I've got but I'll happily PM it if people would have the time to take a look.

In outline it is:
- My passenger was pregnant this is discrimination under the Equality Act 2010.
- £100 is not a genuine and reasonable pre-estimate of loss
- The ‘parking charge notice’ did not clearly state the address of the car park and I visited both that day and one of them twice. I have no way of knowing whether the two photographs showing my car are from one visit or two.
- I would like to see proof that the ANPR system at the car parks on both the Brent Cross sites have been correctly installed and calibrated, in accordance with the relevant protocols.
- I received no ‘letter before action/claim’ in accordance with the Practice Direction. Had I received this I would have responded.
- I have seen no contract between Parking Eye and the landowner, written authorisation that they are legally able to pursue parking charges on behalf of the landowner, or proof that the ANPR meets all the relevant legal standards.

Thanks