Rubbish Private Parking Fine on my Company Car - Getting my money back

monaghan87

Hi all,

I received a Parking Charge Notice from UK Parking Patrol Office in Manchester at the end of July which was issued at 02:02am on a private road. After doing my research on here I learned that it is best to just ignore these and let them huff and puff until they give up. Which I did.

The car is a company car (owned by the fleet company Arval) and I have been notified by my company today that Arval were sent the bill by the UK Parking Patrol Office and paid the fine (£100 + £25 admin) and are now billing me for it!

I said that I was aware of this fine and that it was my decision to ignore it because I wasn't about to hand over a penny to these cowboys. My company have said this in response:

"The leasing company are sent the fine (as the registered owners of the car). They pay the fine and then re-charge us for it and take the money from us by Direct Debit so we have no control over this. We have received notification of the DD today which is what has triggered the finance department to let you know.

If you can have the fine overturned Arval will be reimbursed who will then refund us so we can refund you. Finance can’t get involved as we are neither the registered owner or driver of the vehicle."

I'm furious because now I have to try and get my own money back from the UK Parking Patrol Office and I'm concerned this is going to be a much more drawn out process. To get my money back off them means I'm doing the chasing and I'm concerned I'm going to be sent all round the houses to win this case. Has anyone got any advice on what the next steps should be and how straightforward they feel it will be for me to sort this out and get my money back?

Thanks a lot in advance for your help

ianders

monaghan87 wrote: »

After doing my research on here I learned that it is best to just ignore these and let them huff and puff until they give up. Which I did.

That hasn't been the advice for quite some time.

What you should have done in this instance was to let the parking company know you were the driver, then used their appeal process.

peter_the_piper

However now its paid there is slim chance of getting the money back. You are left with arguing/negotiating with your company.

Rover_Driver

Have a read of pages 5 & 6:

www.aldnews.co.uk/eInsight/images/files/Road_Traffic_Offences_Guide%20New%20Sept%202012.pdf

And check your leasing agreement.

Guys_Dad

It wasn't a fine.

The PPCs pray for ignorant leasing companies. (Preyers praying, so to speak.) In this case, their prayers have been answered.

Get on to your company and show them this

14 Misrepresentation of authority
14.1 You must give clear information to the public about what parking activities are allowed and what is unauthorised. You must not misrepresent to the public that your parking control and enforcement work is carried out under the statutory powers of the police or any other
public authority. You will be breaching the Code if you suggest to the public that you are providing parking enforcement under statutory authority.

14.2 You must not use terms which imply that parking is being managed, controlled and enforced under statutory authority. This includes using terms such as ‘fine’, ‘penalty’ or ‘penalty charge notice’.

It comes from the British Parking Association's Code of Practice here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/AOS_CoP_June_2013_update.pdf where the BPA clearly show that the charge is not a fine and, therefore, can not be thought of as such in any leasing company t&c.

Now show them this as well from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 which, as a leasing company, they should have been aware of.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted

Hire vehicles

13(1)This paragraph applies in the case of parking charges incurred in respect of the parking of a vehicle on relevant land if—
(a)the vehicle was at the time of parking hired to any person under a hire agreement with a vehicle-hire firm; and
(b)the keeper has been given a notice to keeper within the relevant period for the purposes of paragraph 8(4) or 9(4) (as the case may be).
(2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given—
(a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
(b)a copy of the hire agreement; and
(c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.
(3)The statement of liability required by sub-paragraph (2)(c) must—
(a)contain a statement by the hirer to the effect that the hirer acknowledges responsibility for any parking charges that may be incurred with respect to the vehicle while it is hired to the hirer;
(b)include an address given by the hirer (whether a residential, business or other address) as one at which documents may be given to the hirer;(and it is immaterial whether the statement mentioned in paragraph (a) relates also to other charges or penalties of any kind).
et seq.

That lays down what the hirers should do - it means they should have given you up as keeper at the time.

monaghan87

Awesome, thank you so much for all of this information. this is exactly what I needed. I'll send this information on and let you know what their response is

EHBA

Remember that there are separate agreements between your company and the lease company and your company and yourself.

Your company have already made a mistake by referring to it as a fine and unless your agreement with them specifically refers to non-official parking or congestion charges you may have them on the back foot already.

The section in the BVRLA link is a recent document and on Page 8, section 3, where it says are liable for .... 'parking offence or parking notice', they are being a bit disingenuous.

Your agreement may be more specific and refer to official RTA offences, congestion charges and parking fines, not PPC/parking charges. There is a previous , pre POFA/POPLA, BVRLA document that covers their members legal right to transfer liability and PPC Charges were not on that list.

Effectively the procedure in your case leaves anyone in your company with a company car open to anyone who sends Arval a parking charge. The direct debit situation is even worse, who signed up to that ? Obviously someone who didn't know that 2.2m private parking invoices have been issued in the last year.

Do you have to authorise the deduction to your pay ? Have you signed it ? When you say you were aware of the 'fine', was it a ticket on the car ?

Let us know the exact state of play at the moment and confirm what it says on your agreement.

Tricky situation but I got several colleagues out of a similar situation and the lease company were left out of pocket. However these were ANPR issued charges and my colleagues were wholly unaware of them until the Co asked them to authorise salary deductions.

As you go through this, assume no-one in your company or the lease company has any idea of PPC's and their antics or any sort of real knowledge about this situation. They have already stated that they are asking you to pay a fine which suggests they haven't got a clue.

Assume Finance, Fleet, your line manager/director will have their company hats on, however much they may sympathise with you. First and foremost they will want to abide by the agreement between the lease co and the company. A very strong motivator in the relationship between the lease co and the company will be the protection of the company from vehicle related legal problems.

This situation can be overcome but you will need to know your facts and get any of the colleagues you deal with who do have company
cars to think again, with their company car driver's hat on.

As the company are not the Registered Keeper or the regular keeper they are out of the loop legally, as far as the PPC is concerned. They have at least confirmed...

" Finance can’t get involved as we are neither the registered owner or driver of the vehicle."

They shouldn't be involved at all as Arval should have passed you the PPC Charge and advised the PPC.

The loop your company are now in is their 'debt' of £125 and their ludicrous agreement with the leasing company to accept direct debits from the lease co and the terms of their agreements with them and yourself. An easy option for them is to put some heat on you to pay up. That is not a solution to the overall problem that WILL happen again.

You have a 'problem' that will require tact and tactics to resolve. It is not a battle. Assuming nothing is going to happen over the weekend, look at some other threads on here and on pepipoo involving company car drivers, not hire car drivers.

As I see it the only way you are going to get out of paying £125 is to set up a process that get's the blame shifted onto Arval and their error in not advising the PPC and passing the charge onto yourself, if that was the case.

bod1467

Whilst I haven't been affected by this, as a company car driver I know it's a possibility.

To that end I have already informed the company fleet manager, the fleet company AND the lease company that any such PARKING Charge Notices must be forwarded to me to be dealt with (or inform the PPC of my name and address as necessary).

I have made it clear that I will NOT authorise any salary deductions if they decide to pay such speculative invoices and try to reclaim from me.

(My company's car policy specifically uses the word Fines. I have brought this to their attention and made it clear that PARKING Charge Notices ARE NOT fines).

Coupon-mad

I received a Parking Charge Notice from UK Parking Patrol Office in
Manchester at the end of July which was issued at 02:02am on a private road. After doing my research on here I learned that it is best to just ignore these and let them huff and puff until they give up.

Sorry but, what research? :eek:

That was NEVER the advice for a company car for obvious reasons. Even if you had read an OLD thread from, say, 2010 about a company car you wouldn't have seen us advising to ignore! Who exactly did you think was going to get the letters about it - you can't ignore a scam that's being sent elsewhere and is not within your control! Clearly the PPC would not have known who you were and were bound to write to the owner/registered keeper...you had to appeal to get the letters to you, if you had decided to ignore it all (wrongly, as we don't advise ignoring in 2013).

This was always going to happen. Difficult situation now for you as this is your employer and the lease co. that you are having to criticise. What a shame you didn't read the current advice in July. Good luck with your complaints.

tatter

Has anyone ever successfully defended a case against a hire company that has already paid a PPC without first notifying the driver or drivers company.
My lease company Alphabet have in the agreement that at their descretion they may pay and i will be liable for i quote:

c) If any parking or speeding fines, congestion charges, or other such fines, duties
or charges become payable to any third party in respect of the Vehicle (not
including the vehicle licence duty), we may choose to pay them on your behalf and
re-charge them to you plus a £25 administration fee for each item or (at our
discretion and where we are able) refer the third party to you for payment by
issuing a letter of representation and charge you an administration fee of £12
I dont think this is specific enough for a PPC.
I also have a copy of the parking ticket that i paid covering the period, although due to the winter storms it may have been placed face down.
I did write to the PPC at the time not idetifying myself but provided a serviceable email address and asked for a POPLA code. I received the std email saying i needed to name the driver.
I heard nothing for 3 months when i recd an invoice from me lease company.

Dee140157

Tatter please start your own thread as you can get answers then. In the meantime though search the forum for BVRLA and get your head around these guidelines