Universal benefit - £0.425bn to be written off.

Loughton_Monkey

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Probably called something else or maybe they "healthier" as they don't have our lifestyles and so less demand?

It easy not to have awaiting list if you don't allow people onto it in the first place..

I don't think it's any of these things....

Both Korea and China operate quite a comprehensive 'National Health System'. But it has the following differences that (in my view) make their system far better:

1. There is always a very modest co-payment. Perhaps we are talking of say £15 to register for your 'first visit'. This keeps away the hypochondriacs and time wasters.

2. There is always a "box" within which the system operates, giving the possibility of you being 'outside the box'. We are talking, though, of quite sensible things. You would have to pay for your own food during hospital stay, and when given drugs, you get a generic one that will work. If you want the 'branded' super-duper slow-release latest release from Pfeizer then fine, pay for them yourself! Things like 'elective' Caesareans [extremely common in Korea] have to be paid for.

3. Subject to the above, therefore, you would be in front of the GP [equivalent] in the hospital at 10:00 a.m. You might go for an x-ray, blood test, and ultrasound just round the corner, and be back in front of the GP at 10:45. At 10:50 you would walk away with your prescription, or possibly in the operating theatre at 3 p.m. having your ulcer removed, being released the next morning..... As I said, they simply do not understand 'waiting' unless you say "I'm busy this afternoon, could I have it done Thursday?"

I cannot personally testify that the clinical professionalism and knowledge of the typical Asian GP, Surgeon, or specialist is as good as a British one, but I have no reason to doubt it. After all, how many Asian-trained doctors do we already have in our own NHS?

But their health systems are far more effective (and cheaper) than our own in my strong opinion.

grizzly1911

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Or he could have quit the drinking, smoking and 20 cups of espresso coffee. Probably more effective.

Omeprazole is rather wonderful for indigestion though

BTW - i always think that you're better off without private insurance, as frankly, their nurses are no better (often worse) than NHS. Pay the NHS privately when you need scans doing. Think it cost £200 for our son's leg X-rays, but we skipped a 2 hour wait and got seen by a great NHS consultant; because we had the relevant diagnostics

NHS provides a more cohesive, joined up care than using private.

Private care has it's place and we have used it within the family.

It is often NHS staff that operate the clinical side either "moonlighting" or split part time work/bank. Certainly the consultants were the same which ever route was chosen.

As you say it can make sense to jump the queue for the diagnostics and then drop back into the mainstream.

If you are clinically urgent the NHS will do it's job. It could do better at the long term chronic cases that need managing by on or on behalf of the patient.

They certainly don't want to big up the "difficult" stuff and don't have the breadth and depth of options. If they make a mistake who picks up the pieces?

They do have free tea and coffee in reception, marginally better food/hospitality and free TV.

Generali

grizzly1911 wrote: »

Private care has it's place and we have used it within the family.

It is often NHS staff that operate the clinical side either "moonlighting" or split part time work/bank. Certainly the consultants were the same which ever route was chosen.

As you say it can make sense to jump the queue for the diagnostics and then drop back into the mainstream.

If you are clinically urgent the NHS will do it's job. It could do better at the long term chronic cases that need managing by on or on behalf of the patient.

They certainly don't want to big up the "difficult" stuff and don't have the breadth and depth of options. If they make a mistake who picks up the pieces?

They do have free tea and coffee in reception, marginally better food/hospitality and free TV.

Over here the private hospitals I've seen have been very nice.

Private room. TV with Foxtel (Sky) and Internet. Decent grub which arrives to your bed hot with a glass of wine or a bottle of beer (dinner only). Not forced to lie in your own filth or drink water from vases.

Lovely.

ILW

Generali wrote: »

Over here the private hospitals I've seen have been very nice.

Private room. TV with Foxtel (Sky) and Internet. Decent grub which arrives to your bed hot with a glass of wine or a bottle of beer (dinner only). Not forced to lie in your own filth or drink water from vases.

Lovely.

And if it all gets a bit pricy, pop on a plane and the good old NHS will give you the really expensive treatment even if you have never set foot in the UK in your life. We should be proud.

grizzly1911

Generali wrote: »

Over here the private hospitals I've seen have been very nice.

Private room. TV with Foxtel (Sky) and Internet. Decent grub which arrives to your bed hot with a glass of wine or a bottle of beer (dinner only). Not forced to lie in your own filth or drink water from vases.

Lovely.

I have never seen people drinking water out of vases. How much of that was actually down to the condition the a patient was admitted with.

I have witnessed abject racism (as a result of their condition) from one patient who was still dealt with with care. From this am I to conclude that all patients are racists.

I have seen water, fresh water delivered and beakers replenished. Despite encouraging people to drink they are not always receptive or compliant at which point I have witnessed saline drips being installed and monitored. I have witnessed the check lists completed to confirm comfort inspections been made.

I have seen people lying in their own filth for short periods. if someone is is incontinent or temporarily so then that is what happens. When the staff are either made aware or see for there own eyes on their periodic inspections then they are cleaned and up and beds remade. If urine control becomes a a problem I have also witnessed catheters being installed.

This quite often happens several times on a shift. I have also witnessed nurses responding to requests for commodes and or bed pans which have been dealt with in dignity and urgency.

I have also witnessed geriatric staff crying wolf repetitively.

I have witnessed patients refusing non life threatening care and treatment. If the patient is lucid the staff can't force them.

I have also witnessed relatives and friends helping their loved ones, they have a responsibility too.

When both our children were in hospital we helped take care of their needs when they weren't on special care.

Not sure whether alcohol is relevant in hospital. I believe Guinness used to sponsor maternity wards and supply sustenance to nursing mothers.

Yes that TV internet thing is needs sorting out and the food too although there is no need to starve unless you you choose too.

kabayiri

grizzly1911 wrote: »

...
I have witnessed abject racism (as a result of their condition) from one patient who was still dealt with with care. From this am I to conclude that all patients are racists.
...

I know someone who is transgender; known them a long time now; and I respect their life choice etc - up to them.

Anyway, this person decided to pay to have surgery (kidney I think) at a private hospital precisely because they thought they would get treated with respect. I think we are talking £6K or so, not a trifling amount.

As a thank you for their custom, my friend got punched in the wound during recovery, and 2 years on is still suffering from side effects created by problems with the anaesthetics.

I guess you can get good and bad experience with either private or NHS.

Loughton_Monkey

ringo_24601 wrote: »

Or he could have quit the drinking, smoking and 20 cups of espresso coffee. Probably more effective.

Omeprazole is rather wonderful for indigestion though

Spot on!

Well almost....

I know what you're saying and I take full personal responsibility for intake of these legal substances. My intake of each has remained extremely 'constant' over the last 20 to 30 years to the point where they are part of my life.

Unlike people who make other choices [particularly in things like not saving, over-spending, not buying houses early enough...] and who whinge about what has "happened" to them in terms of can't (now) afford a house... can't save for pension.... I recognise the choices I am making and will take the consequences. I will not "winge" about it. [I will, however, continue to whinge about the whingers!!]

I strongly percieve that my 'quality of life' would suffer enormously if I gave up these things. They keep me calm, relatively stress free. I find G&T very enjoyable while relaxing, and I can afford this lifestyle.

I liken the situation to others who knowingly make their own deliberate choices, say, to get married and have 4 children early - thus being forced to rent, and who perhaps cannot ever afford a decent car or good holidays....... If such people chose this lifestyle, and don't whinge about the obvious financial consequences, then they are 100% 'good people' in my book.

But I get irritated in the extreme by those who either make those choices and whnge about the obvious financial consequences, or those who are too sloppy/stupid to recognise that they are (themselves) making these choices and thereby creating their own (lack of) fortune and who believe it is "society's...government's...God's...Gordon Brown's" [delete as appropriate] fault.

[Incidentally, I will (statistically) save the taxpayer oodles of money in state pension and geriatric care if I die early - so please don't riposte with the old hoary chestnut of smokers should be denied free medical treatment....]

[Deleted User]

I just mean you could choose to cut down your coffee/alcohol consumption if you felt it was immediately impacting on your health, rather than use medication.

You've probably got an ulcer that you're just suppressing, rather than treating. As you said, your choice

Loughton_Monkey

ringo_24601 wrote: »

FYI - Omeprazole costs quite a lot (£20 quid a packet normally) so i'm not surprised they didn't want to prescribe it. Also, it causes a bit of hair loss...

Dunno why you went with Rennies rather than over-the-counter Ranitidine.

Ah, the advantages of marrying a nurse (we get treated pretty darn well in our local hospital)

I missed this post first time round.

Actually, I tried Zantac [a form of Ranitidine] for many months, but it simply didn't work on me. Omeprozole, in contrast, works a dream! And I still have a very full head of hair for my age, and only just starting to go grey.

Of course being over 60, I get free prescriptions. Whilst in Shanghai, I used to pay for the prescription, but found it far cheaper to buy in bulk when on holiday in Malaysia, Thailand, or Bali. I bought some OTC in UK when I first returned and you're right. Very expensive. But just a typical rip-off by drug companies and/or NHS and/or UK Pharmacists.

If NHS bulk buying procedures were any good, I would be surprised if they actually come in at much more than the prescription charge. I could (and would willingly) pay my prescription charge because I can afford it. But it's like the heating allowance. I don't need it. I shouldn't be entitled to it. In a way I resent being entitled to it. But given that I am, I'm damned if I am going to freely give these things up. I much prefer to take these things, make myself 'richer', because when I (and Mrs LM) shuttle off this mortal coil, a [probably] 7 figure sum will be going to good charities anyway.

[Deleted User]

Won't stop boozing, so uses tax-payer funded free medicines to neutralise the effects. Nice one.

Don't worry, people like me are loosing their child benefit allowances so that rich pensioners can get free stuff. I do hope they re-address that balancing in the coming years as a lot more wealthy baby-boomer start to milk the system dry

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