Scotland 'event'. Live in England.

Getting_Prepared

Hello, long time lurker but now need to ask a question.

A relative overstayed in a motorway service area in Scotland. Their car is registered in their own name at their home address in England.

I see from previous advice that fake charges issued for 'events' in Scotland the advice has been to ignore - is this still the case if the vehicle is registered in England?

Thank you.

Getting_Prepared

Anyone please?

bod1467

PoFA 2012 doesn't apply in Scotland, ergo no registered keeper liability. The "event" was in Scotland so must be dealt with pursuant to Scottish Law.

(Is my understanding).

Umkomaas

bod1467 wrote: »

PoFA 2012 doesn't apply in Scotland, ergo no registered keeper liability. The "event" was in Scotland so must be dealt with pursuant to Scottish Law.

(Is my understanding).

I suspect it might not be as clear cut (not from a legal point of view, but just in terms of who we are dealing with here). I doubt many PPCs know the difference between the two jurisdictions, let alone the ramifications of PoFA - they clearly seem to have problems with that in the two countries where it does apply. So it probably won't stop them issuing the usual paper chase.

OP - you've not said whether there has yet been any correspondence from the PPC, nor, for that matter, who the PPC is. Can you let us know that and we can advise further?

zzzLazyDaisy

I am going to stick my neck out here and say that if the PCN is recent enough to still be in time to appeal, then the English RK should appeal. Because we know they will at POPLA, and it saves arguing the jurisdiction point if court proceedings are issued by the PPC.

Stroma

Nope no keeper liability as in Scotland , so no pofa 2012, no popla! Providing it's not a hire car then the option is to ignore as they can't prove liability unless you tell them.

But I know some cases (Dundee Uni) has gone through the English courts for some reason, have no idea why. Whois the parking company OP ?

Stroma

Daisy popla will not hear any Scottish cases, it's out of their jurisdiction so it's not an option

Iceweasel

bod1467 wrote: »

PoFA 2012 doesn't apply in Scotland, ergo no registered keeper liability. The "event" was in Scotland so must be dealt with pursuant to Scottish Law.

(Is my understanding).

That's my understanding too.

An English or Welsh court is not competent to deal with a 'crime' committed or a 'debt' incurred in Scotland.

A Scottish court would throw it out if they were going for the RK.

It's very important that the RK does not supply the name and address of the driver.

My advice is wait and see what nonsense, if any, the PPC tries with this.

Which Service area was this and who has contacted you, if anyone?

zzzLazyDaisy

yes i know, but the rk lives in england, so service will be effective (unlike a defendant who lives in scotland where the english courts cannot serve full stop).

Which means that the court may list the case for a hearing on the issue of jurisdiction instead of automatically striking it out, as they would if a case was accidentally issued against a defendant living in Scotland (as when PE conveniently leave the word 'Scotland' off the address).

In that case it just adds an extra layer of inconvenience for the defendant (who, to be fair, may be happy to deal with it if it gets that far anyway)

zzzLazyDaisy

Iceweasel wrote: »

An English or Welsh court is not competent to deal with a 'crime' committed or a 'debt' incurred in Scotland.

This comment is not relevant to parking cases, but just to correct the generalisation. Where debts are concerned, it is possible (and common where the creditor is based in England/Wales) for the contract to state in the small print that the laws of England and Wales apply.

If the debt is large enough to warrant the expense, the creditor can issue in the English court and apply for a warrant of service out of the jurisdiction. It is expensive and never going to happen in the SCC. But what could happen is that the debtor moves south of the border and gets clobbered, because even though the contract originally was entered into in Scotland, English law applies.

Similarly, property bought in Scotland, by two people married and living in Scotland, comes under English law if the divorcing party moves to England and commences divorce proceedings here. This can be very much more beneficial to the divorcing party especially where there has been a long period of separation.

Apologies as that is completely off topic, but I just wanted to clarify the inference that an event which originated in Scotland can never be dealt with in the English courts.

Stroma

But there is still no keeper liability as this happened in Scotland , that's the rules according to the bpa cop, and as no liability then they cannot realistically issue a claim. I would bet its CP Plus who are toothless in any case