Advice for executor - estate did not go to probate

sunshinechaser13

RAS - I've found the para which may relate to other parts of the estate:

"I give devise and bequeth all my real and personal estate of whatsoever nature and whatsoever situate (including any property over which I may have a general power of appointment or disposition by Will) to my Trustees upon trust to sell call in and convert the same into money with full power in their absolute and uncontrolled discretion to postpone such sale calling in and conversion for so long a period as they shall think fit without being responsible for loss"

RAS

sunshinechaser13 wrote: »

RAS - I've found the para which may relate to other parts of the estate:

"I give devise and bequeth all my real and personal estate of whatsoever nature and whatsoever situate (including any property over which I may have a general power of appointment or disposition by Will) to my Trustees upon trust to sell call in and convert the same into money with full power in their absolute and uncontrolled discretion to postpone such sale calling in and conversion for so long a period as they shall think fit without being responsible for loss"

OK

Anything NOT otherwise detailed in the will benefits both trustees (yourself and dad).

I had a bit of a thunk overnight.

Firstly, you need to think about the family dynamics; even if mum's will is not proved during dad's lifetime, it could be proved after his death. Although it will take longer to sort out both estates and could be a bit messier.

Do you know what happens to dad's estate after his death? Do you understand why he is not keen to get probate? Was mum in a nursing home at any stage prior to her death?

Based on what you have said about his age, I am going to guess that their wills were done to protect part of the estate from possible nursing home fees; severing the joint tenancy is often sold as a way to avoid fees. Dad probably expected to go first and is now uncomfortable with the outcome.

Given the difficulties you are having, I think you need to start by taking the will to a solicitor. Photocopy it and number the paras on the photocopy. Ask the solicitor to explain each paragraph in plain English and write down the explanation for your own benefit.

And given dad's age do you have an Enduring or Lastign Power of Attorney in place in case he becomes unable to look after himself?

sunshinechaser13

Thanks again for the reply. I'm guessing that means her personal finances (bonds/life assurance etc) should have been distributed equally?

Yes she was in a nursing home prior. Dad has said he has a will, but that he is not going to tell me where it is, as 'I will just have to find it.' He is very stubborn and sadly would not agree to Enduring/Lasting Power of Attorney. The only reason I can think of to avoid probate was to give me no say in any matters whatsoever, and not be able to find out about having any claim to the house or to her personal finances/life assurance - I told him the will needed to go to probate and he point blank refused. It seems he has somehow managed to get away with telling the financial organisations, that the money from her personal accounts/life insurance would be used for her debts, which it doesn't seem to have been (given the high amount of savings in the joint savings acc at the time!).

loubel

You need to look at the whole Will to establish what it provides for. Take a copy to a local probate solicitor and ask them to explain what it says.

RAS

sunshinechaser13 wrote: »

Thanks again for the reply. I'm guessing that means her personal finances (bonds/life assurance etc) should have been distributed equally?

This depends on exactly how they were owned.

Anything jointly owned with dad like the savings is his as the sole survivor.

Anything in her sole ownership should be shared (like the bonds).

The insurance depends on who the beneficiary of the policy was; she could have written it in trust, nominated dad as beneficiary or it could be part of the estate.

sunshinechaser13 wrote: »

Yes she was in a nursing home prior.

In which case there may well be fees that had to be paid from their savings. Or the Social Services may have paid the fees and expect to recoup the cost when the house is sold. Do they have a charge on the property?

sunshinechaser13 wrote: »

It seems he has somehow managed to get away with telling the financial organisations, that the money from her personal accounts/life insurance would be used for her debts, which it doesn't seem to have been (given the high amount of savings in the joint savings acc at the time!).

A lot of companies allow sums less than £10K to be paid out on receipt of the death certificate and a signed disclaimer from the person presenting it.

Using that money to pay off the debts would be quite correct; after probate is granted all debts have to be paid before anything can be disbursed to the beneficiaries.

You need to see a solicitor; take the will and details of mum's assets with you.

sunshinechaser13

Sorry - forgot to mention I'm 99% certain she had no debts - there was over 15k in the joint savings account alone aside from any other accounts/bonds. I think he has told them there were debts when there none.

There is no charge on the property, fees were paid partly by the council with my father just paying a 'top-up.'

RAS

Forget about the joint bank account; that is and always was 100% totally dads (jointly and severally with mum whilst she was alive but now solely).

You need to get a lawyer to explain this to you as if you keep harping on about accounts which he is the rightful owner, you ruin anything that you might say about accounts that should be shared.

I am a bit surprised about the fees; if mum was declared as owning 50% of a property or having a joint tenancy, my understanding is that the Council would assess her assets, pay the fees and recoup money once the other owner died.

Do you have an AgeUK branch near you?

AMILLIONDOLLARS

Tenants in Common, this is how it works. Joint accounts, money belong to your Dad!

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-1594984/Tenants-common.html

best advise, discuss situation with a Probate Solicitor, this is not the place for a definitive answer unless a Solicitor is answering your question!

AMD

sunshinechaser13

RAS wrote: »

Forget about the joint bank account; that is and always was 100% totally dads (jointly and severally with mum whilst she was alive but now solely).

You need to get a lawyer to explain this to you as if you keep harping on about accounts which he is the rightful owner, you ruin anything that you might say about accounts that should be shared.

I am a bit surprised about the fees; if mum was declared as owning 50% of a property or having a joint tenancy, my understanding is that the Council would assess her assets, pay the fees and recoup money once the other owner died.

Do you have an AgeUK branch near you?

I've got a solicitor appointment next week - didn't mean to harp on - I'm very clear on the fact that the joint account monies were my dads so do not and did not want further clarification on this - however, the point I was making re. the joint account was in fact to demonstrate the fact that his assertion that monies were to be used to pay off debts would be highly unlikely if their savings were so high.

I'll have to check re, the fees but I am literally and was kept out of everything by my father.

sunshinechaser13

AMILLIONDOLLARS wrote: »

Tenants in Common, this is how it works. Joint accounts, money belong to your Dad!

best advise, discuss situation with a Probate Solicitor, this is not the place for a definitive answer unless a Solicitor is answering your question!

AMD

Thanks I'm already clear on this as some had pointed this out earlier in the thread.