Fixed Penalty Notice for Littering

hollydays

Yes, I agree slightly but again we don't know what actually happened.
If the warden did exceed his authority it needs to be looked at, but it looks like he was within the law, while possibly the boy wasn't.by frogmarched I assume it was either- accompanied him back to his school- may be legal-( though being unaccompanied is probably NOT acceptable to his employers)
Or
He physically laid hand on him- which I doubt very much and not legal.
The posters who are making outrageous claims on either side are most depressing, we don't know he was rude or cheeky..

peter_the_piper

http://www.sutton.gov.uk/suttonpress/index.aspx?articleid=9231

This sort of thing makes a mockery of this, a "don't do it again" would have been proportionate. (yes I know its 2010)

SevenOfNine

vlad_the_impaler wrote: »

What a depressing thread.

'My son was littering'
'My son got busted littering and now has to pay an £80 fine'
'My son got taken to his school by the warden'

And what do we get? 'frogmarched', 'assulted', '!!!!!!', 'threats', 'why should I have to pay?', 'how can I get away without paying?'

!!!!!!? Have we all lost our minds? What does this teach your son? What life lesson is he getting?

'Duck and dive and get away with it?'
'I have all the rights, but no responsibilities'
'The state will clean up after me, I don't have to have any personal responsiblity to the community'.

Your son was caught. Many inspectors use their discretion, some maybe don't. Has it occured to you that your son may have forgotton to mention that he was rude to the inspector? Showing off in front of his mates? I'm sure he was politeness itself of course - not that he knew he could rely on his 'I know my rights' parent to back him up.

We are destroying our children by not teaching them personal responsibility, and responsibility to each other and to the community as a whole. He got caught, get over it. Pay the fine and make sure he pays you back every penny. Perhaps that will teach him not to litter and be rude in future? You would be amazed at how far politeness, self reliance and empathy can take a young man in the future world of work. A lot, lot futher than 'it's not fair, I know my rights, you can't do that, i'm telling my mum on you.....'

This post was more depressing than the original post. Littered with assumption, speculation and accusation, then you passed judgement on all your own inaccurate observations.

Read what the OP actually wrote & try taking it as honest face value of what happened. The child dropped a sweet, gave name and address when asked, NO other action was appropriate by this warden other than to issue the postal penalty notice if that was the Local Authority procedure in such circumstances.

A rant such as yours based on conjecture is most sad.

olias

The issues surrounding this child aside, for me, the main thing about this thread is the fact that the so called 'litter' was a sweet, presumably accidentaly dropped. To my mind, that is no more offensive or problematic as the similar items that have been reported as resulting in fines - The dropped crisp, the apple core thrown into a hedge, etc etc, even dropped cigarette ash has been reported as resulting in a fine! I'm sorry, but these items are in no way problematic litter in the same way as a deliberately discarded can/crisp packet/takeaway wrapper/bottle or plastic bag etc etc is.

I am absolutely sure they are not what was envisinged when the littering acts were created and certainly not what they are for, and are now being used in the same way as the ticket given for parking 2 inches onto a double yellow line, for the issuer to justify his job, and for the council employer to raise revenue.

And for those that are bound to say, 'well its the thin end of the wedge and will lead to worse things', no it won't! I am sure I have dropped numerous crisps, sweets, apple cores etc over my lifetime, but I would not dream of throwing a can, or a Mcdonalds wrapper onto the street and indeed abhor the site of a litter strewn street.

Olias

mttylad

If my son deliberatly dropped rubbish in the street and refused to pick it up an £80 fine would be the least of his problems!!

theforumking

Dont litter then>>>

SCAMHUNTER_2

theforumking wrote: »

dont litter then>>>

good point fk

olias

mttylad wrote: »

If my son deliberatly dropped rubbish in the street and refused to pick it up an £80 fine would be the least of his problems!!

I don't recall the OP saying it was deliberate, or that he refused to pick it up?????

Why do peple on these forums seem to just make up their own version of events to suit their comments?

Olias

dealer_wins

olias wrote: »

The issues surrounding this child aside, for me, the main thing about this thread is the fact that the so called 'litter' was a sweet, presumably accidentaly dropped.

If it was "accidently dropped" then pick it up!!

For the record I dont believe this to be the case at all. More like the OPs son got caught red handed littering, and it trying every excuse he can think of!!

samsmoot

Besides the rights and wrongs of littering there's the rights and wrongs of the whole procedure. My opinion on the former doesn't matter so I'll only natter about the latter.

Sticking to the legal stuff and totally disregarding the OP's specific queries the first thing that interests me is the legality of the ticket. I would examine it carefully to ensure it was issued correctly. One potential fine was avoided due to the box on the back failing to be ticked by the issuing officer. The law says you have a chance to discharge the ticket by paying for the offence - but as the box wasn't ticked to state what the specific offence was the ticket couldn't be paid. So it's always a good idea to check if the ticket has been properly completed with all the required details.

Another legal requirement is that the areas where penalties apply be specified. The police can give you a £10 fine for littering anywhere, whereas wardens can only penalise you in certain areas, so it's always worth checking if they can issue a ticket in that particular place.

Another legal requirement is that the council 'may' choose how they publicise that they have a penalty scheme in place. This means that they must publicise it in some way, and it's a defence if they don't (maybe).

If it went to the Magistrates' Court there would need to be two witnesses to the offence of littering (or a single police officer), and if not that's an automatic dismissal (in theory).

I do have an opinion on the assault on the child, and of the heavy handed tactics of the warden, and the failure of school staff to report the attack. And that was it.