NCP Centre MK Parking Charge

jimmy76

Hello,

We got a PCCN from the NCP when I paid at the wrong machine in the secklow gate/north row car park. There are two companies operating the same car park but nonexistent signage or bay markings.

I complained to the centre MK who got the charge cancelled for me.

The council refuse to acknowledge the problem and say the signs are adequate but strangely have a policy that they will still cancel a first charge only as a gesture of goodwill.

Just wanted to share the contact details for anyone else who wants to complain

[EMAIL="Laura.chapman@thecentremk.com"]Laura.chapman@thecentremk.com[/EMAIL]

[EMAIL="Rachel.Hawkins@Milton-keynes.gov.uk"]Rachel.Hawkins@Milton-keynes.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

Thanks
jimmy76

Stroma

I doubt the council will get involved unless it's their land ?? But if there is no clear marking between the parts of the car park there is a clear breach of the bpa cop, and won't hold up in court or popla. Can you name the other company involved?

Coupon-mad

It's part Council part NCP and very confusing as we've had several threads about it. Nigelbb started off on the parking forums thanks to a ticket from this place I think:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77572

...and now he's a regular here and on pepipoo! :T:T

nigelbb

The confusion suits both the council & NCP as they make money from it & this state of affairs has been going on for years. If I lived locally I would be lobbying the local media contacting Trading Standards & asking questions of the council.

A simple way to solve the problem would be to fix signs to all the ticket machines explaining that there are two adjacent car parks with no fence between them & that the motorist should be sure to purchase a ticket from the correct machine.

On the bright side the NCP signage is woefully inadequate & the NTD/NTK are not compliant with POFA so any appeal to POPLA is a guaranteed win. NCP don't do court any more since getting whipped by Mr Mayhook & having to pay his costs of £87000.

Guys_Dad

To clarify. Most parking round CMK is council run by Vinci However, there are a couple of areas outside John Lewisham and this one that are owned by The Centre MK run by NCP.

Regrettably I have to disagree with the OP as NCP have large signs at the entrance to their areas but when you are looking for a parking space, maybe you are not looking for them.

When on foot It is common for people to pick the wrong ticket machine as they are very similar and therein lies the problem..

nigelbb

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Regrettably I have to disagree with the OP as NCP have large signs at the entrance to their areas but when you are looking for a parking space, maybe you are not looking for them.

I disagree. There may be large signs going into the NCP car park but they are not compliant with the mandatory entrance signs in the BPA Ltd CoP. There is also no reason why anyone who is not familiar with Milton Keynes would know that they did not apply to the whole of the parking as the Council car parking does not have signs up.

There are photos of the signs in this post on my thread over on PePiPoo http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=77572&view=findpost&p=802199

Aside from signs on the ticket machines I think that NCP should put an archway over the entrance to their car park with large clear signs that you are now entering a separate car park from the rest of central Milton Keynes & that you must use the NCP ticket machines. It wouldn't cost much & would all but solve the problem but as it would impact their revenue they are not going to do it until forced to by Trading Standards.

The on street council parking has to be pay & display but there is no reason why the NCP managed car parks cannot have barrier entry with pay on exit.

Guys_Dad

I don't disagree with the suggestions made. And even if the NCP signs might be non compliant, they are, as I said, large and difficult to miss. And they have been refreshed since your photos and even worse - free parking in the council area has gone!

The parking arrangements are strange as the private areas are all within and surrounded by council parking areas. And you correctly state that there is an absence of large council signs.

Stroma

I don't know the lay of the land, but how can one car park have different sections that are not clearly marked out? Does the council own all of it and lease some of it out? Logically speaking it should be only one group managing it

nigelbb

Guys_Dad wrote: »

I don't disagree with the suggestions made. And even if the NCP signs might be non compliant, they are, as I said, large and difficult to miss.

BUT if they are not compliant with the BPA Ltd CoP they cannot be relied on as bringing to notice the details necessary for the motorist to form a contract for parking.

nigelbb

Stroma wrote: »

I don't know the lay of the land, but how can one car park have different sections that are not clearly marked out? Does the council own all of it and lease some of it out? Logically speaking it should be only one group managing it

The council parking is on street in marked bays & of necessity pay & display although parking meters would be an alternative. The NCP car park is contiguous with no fence between the two areas. Guys Dad seems to be the only one who thinks that the entrance signs to the NCP car park are adequate. If there were no other parking I would agree but as there is adjacent parking with no fence & even the purple road markings are the same I think that they need to make a special effort to bring to the attention of the motorist that this is a separate car park. Incidentally the price of £1.30/hour is the same in both car parks.

This image is taken from inside the NCP car park. The nearest cars are in the NCP area the cars across the pavement in the council area.



This photo is of one of the entrances to the NCP car park. Note that there is no NCP sign visible.



This photo was taken just to the left of the previous one & is in the council parking area



This is I think a council parking sign

Guys_Dad

Hold on, Nigel. If you remember, I helped with your original post on here as I live in MK so I am not saying that the signs are compliant, merely that in the area in question, they are there..And the sign itself at the entrance to this car park stands 7 feet tall.

I responded to the point in post #1 that read "There are two companies operating the same car park but nonexistent signage or bay markings."

Nowhere have I said they were adequate, but they are certainly not non-existent. I said that there were large signs there, not that they were compliant, and there are large signs. Perhaps I should have made that point clearer.

OP said in same quote that there were non-existent bays. Your photos show that there are, at least in the council area. And if you think about it, what PPC would miss the chance to charge people for not parking in a bay by not putting bay markings.

I am no defender of the CMK parking areas and if anyone cares to look at CMK parking map, the number of separate areas with pockets run by different concessions with free time (McD for example) make it very confusing for visitors and, indeed, lucrative for parking companies/council.