RENTING - Being the main tenant and sub-tenant behaviour - am I being pedantic?

anselld

bikerchris wrote: »

So he's a lodger then, eh anselld?

If he pays you rent then yes, lodger.

If he pays rent to your landlord and just splits bills with you then I'm not so sure.

G_M

My understanding (please correct/confirm):

* YOU have an agreement with the owner (your 'friend).
* YOU pay the rent to the owner.
* YOU are liable for all utilities/council tax
* Your landlord has given you permission to have a 2nd person live there
* You have found a 2nd person
* This 2nd person shares with you
* This 2ndperson pays rent to YOU

Lodger/Excluded Occupier.

This means that person has almost no rights or protection by virtue of Acts of Parliament.(A tenant has significant rights/protection).

What rights they have are based soley on the contract between you (whether written or verbal). Enforcement of those contract rights is a civil matter.

Thus as I said before: Your home. Your rules.

And you can change those rules if need be: if he does not like the new rules, you give notice ('reasonable' notice, oras per the contract).

If you feel indebted to him (his past help) then you must balance your feelings of indebtedness against your ongoing frustration with the arrangement

vivatifosi

It sounds like there are two separate issues:

1) The money
2) The inconvenience

You need to decide which is important to you (may be both) as the responses will be different. If it is about the money, you could just put it up to reflect changing circumstances. If it is about the inconvenience, then I'd ask them not to stay.

It's your place and if they are the one with people staying over, then the household dynamic changes with the net result that you end up feeling like the lodger.

Kynthia

bikerchris wrote: »

Kynthia: I probably didn't help matters by having a formal contract between me and him. I did have a contract with his son who previously stayed with me, I think I didn't do this the second time round because I was mainly in distracting pain.

It seems a fine line between lodger and tenant (perhaps I'm being stupid though), but here's a breakdown of the situation;

There's no fine line, there is legal distinction and therefore very different rights. G_M's last post is very important as it will clearly identify whether he's a lodger or not.

It sounds like he's a good lodger and someone you'd want to treat fairly, so you can do this and still raise the rent. I only mentioned about a contract as you both have to abide by it if there is one, so if you had said he had a fixed term (not recommended when you have a lodger by the way) then it would be difficult to raise the rent during it. A contract or written agreement is usually recommended so that both sides know the situation but it isn't a disaster that you don't have one. Have a chat with him and discuss that after so long you'd like to raise the rent by 20% as cost of living has gone up and so has the value of the room. However you really enjoy living with him and want to give him 2 months notice of this increase so that he can budget and arrange his finances. If you also want to chat to him about the level of disruption and the amount of overnight guests then do this too, but perhaps at a different time so that it's not linked, and ask him if he's happy and wants any changes too.

bikerchris

Hi G_M, thank you again for responding, I have to have a good think, but your response is very valuable, especially from a legal point of view. Although I hope it doesn't come to that, in the same way I hope he doesn't leave as I doubt I would find another lodger that's as good as him (excluding the other people).

Thanks vivatifosi, you're absolutely right. Both of your points are important to me, but the money is only an issue due to the 'free loaders'. You're spot on about the dynamic, it's not pleasant to be in a kitchen full of people that don't actually live here!

Thanks for your further comments Kynthia, they are appreciated. I should give him 2 months notice of any increases really, it's just a shame the costs are already happening now. I've actually bought one of those electricity meter displays so I can gauge the real impact, beyond my personal space being a factor.

We shall see what happens, I'll certainly update this thread to return the courtesy you've all provided!

LannieDuck

You say you've had words with his sons before, but if he's a decent guy why not have a chat directly with him? Maybe there's a compromise you can both come up with. You could explain that you didn't mind having one extra person around, but 4 people really makes for an overcrowded flat, and is costing you a lot more in utilities.

Perhaps he could either pay more of the utilities, try to arrange work so only one son is around at once, and/or ensure his sons stay no more than one week each month etc. Depending on what you're comfortable with. Obviously if you prefer they not be there at all, you need to be clear about that from the outset...

bikerchris

Thanks Lannie, he is a decent guy so I will be very informal about it - I'm not about to draw a contract up quite yet! One thing that's a pain is that the electricity meter I had from Southern Electric has died, so I can't even see if there has been an increase in usage. The new one is coming soon though, so I can at least make it a fact that it's costing more. Of course it's not just electric, it's water and wear and tear.

Thanks again for your opinion, it is valued.

bikerchris

Hi all,

Just wish to thank you all again for your contributions.

I know 6 months has passed but I thought I'd let you know what happened, if you were curious!

I asked for £575 instead of £500 and he had no problem at all and completely understood. Sods law of course, but the landlord chose to sell the property, so he only paid that for a mere 4 months before we were both out, hey ho!

I've actually moved into a flat now, about 10 mins away from a town centre. I must admit, I thought I'd miss the space I had with the bungalow, but I had forgotten how convenient a flat is (so long as you have quiet neighbours, and I have!). All I will say, is that when I move, I will leave the washing machine behind - it was a !!!!!! to get it up to the 3rd storey level!

All the best,

Chris

HappyMJ

bikerchris wrote: »

Hi all,

Just wish to thank you all again for your contributions.

I know 6 months has passed but I thought I'd let you know what happened, if you were curious!

I asked for £575 instead of £500 and he had no problem at all and completely understood. Sods law of course, but the landlord chose to sell the property, so he only paid that for a mere 4 months before we were both out, hey ho!

I've actually moved into a flat now, about 10 mins away from a town centre. I must admit, I thought I'd miss the space I had with the bungalow, but I had forgotten how convenient a flat is (so long as you have quiet neighbours, and I have!). All I will say, is that when I move, I will leave the washing machine behind - it was a !!!!!! to get it up to the 3rd storey level!

All the best,

Chris

Your landlord can charge you to remove the washing machine so make sure you get something in writing allowing it to stay. You should sell it to the LL for a token payment of £1.

bikerchris

Cheers for that Happy, I'd never even thought of that. I'll make a note and make sure it's done.