PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.

We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum. This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are - or become - political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

Is there an easy way to find out details of a leasehold and who owns the land?

I'm going through the process of buying a house at the moment but it is taking a (very) long time. We thought it would be a relatively quick process as a) the house is empty and b) we are first time buyers.

The owner died so it is now owned by his son and daughter in law but this is possibly making things harder as they do not necessarily have all the info my solicitors are asking for. He had lived there for around 50 years so the paperwork is not so up to date. We are getting on for 3 months now which seems rediculous considering there is no chain.

There was some confusion to begin with about whether the house is freehold or leasehold as the son thinks that his dad bought the lease a few years back but does not have any paperwork to back this up therefore it is being classed as leasehold. My solicitors are now asking for receipts for the ground rent that has been paid which obviously they don't have either.

Is there no easy solution to this? Can they not just find out who owns the land and speak to them to get answers? There seems to be a bit of a stalemate at the moment and I just want to understand a bit more what is going on.

Please help!!

Comments

  • you could try the land registry?
  • you could try the land registry?
    I was thinking that the solicitors would already have done this? You have to pay to get a copy of things of the land registry and I'm not sure they're even what I'm looking for.
  • If the house hasn't been sold for over 50 years, it's probably not registered with HMLR. It will have to be once it is sold, but that's no help now.

    Sounds like the son and daughter-in-law can't find the deeds. These may have been kept in a safe place - like a bank, or a solicitor's office - of which the family is completely unaware. There may have been no will also.

    What makes you/your solicitor think that the place is or was leasehold? (If it's part of a very old development, all the properties could have been leasehold with the same freeholder.)

    Surely your solicitor has copied you into the correspondence with the vendor's solicitor? What answers are they waiting for now?
  • Ladyhawk
    Ladyhawk Posts: 2,064 Forumite
    Its worth giving the Land Registry office a call, even if they just say that they don't hold the information. They have been incredibly helpful to me over the last week.
    Man plans and God laughs...
    Perhaps travel cannot prevent bigotry. But by demonstrating that all people cry, laugh, eat, worry and die, it introduces the idea that if we try to understand each other, we may even become friends.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    MancEm wrote: »
    The owner died so it is now owned by his son and daughter in law but this is possibly making things harder as they do not necessarily have all the info my solicitors are asking for. He had lived there for around 50 years so the paperwork is not so up to date. We are getting on for 3 months now which seems rediculous considering there is no chain.

    Honestly? I can't say I'm surprised. I'm sure the family are trying their hardest to find all the paperwork - they want to get everything wrapped up - but having emptied the in-laws house (40+yrs there), I can picture exactly what sort of nightmare they're up against, especially if their father was confused in his filing.

    It may well be that some of the paperwork you need to find just doesn't exist any more. For an unregistered property, that might be the start of a very difficult situation for the vendors, one that may even mean you need to drop out of the purchase.

    It'd be good if the official Land Registry Rep poster could dive in on this thread, but this bit off their website might be of help.
    http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-2
  • Land_Registry
    Land_Registry Posts: 5,995 Organisation Representative
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Happy to dive in although it looks like other posters have already covered things and the assumptions seem very reasonable.

    50 years is a long time in property ownership terms and as camptownraces suggests it may well not be registered - take a look at section 9 of our Practice Guide 1 and look up the Administrative Area and the listed date for compulsory registration. If that date is within that 50 year period then the odds are it is unregistered.

    You can check online re the postal address as well and IF no information is available then another clue as to it not being registered.
    If the online search reveals some information is available then there is a fee for viewing/downloading it but from what has been posted this seems unlikely.

    The only way to be sure though is to do an official search using form SIM as explained in the same online article but there should be no real need for you to do this as that question should have already been answered for you.

    At this stage I would have expected such issues to have been resolved, namely you would know if it was registered and/or the tenure involved.

    If the deeds have been lost or simply cannot be located then AdrianC has linked you to the relevant Practice Guide which helps explain what the beneficiaries will need to do.

    In my experience some buyers may accept the evidence provided, purchase and then register the title accordingly. However if a buyer has any doubts then they will often insist on the title being registered first and then proceeding with the purchase.

    All the issues around this and the points you are querying should be discussed with your solicitor though as it is legal advice you require and we cannot provide that. We can give you an idea through the guides and online searches as to what to expect but every property is unique and so too are the circumstances behind any sale.

    There may well be an easy answer to this but it will lie with the sellers and the legal professionals involved and whilst such things can take time to resolve I would have hoped that by now the answers would have been provided or at least an indication of the route being taken.
    Official Company Representative
    I am the official company representative of Land Registry. MSE has given permission for me to post in response to queries about the company, so that I can help solve issues. You can see my name on the companies with permission to post list. I am not allowed to tout for business at all. If you believe I am please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com This does NOT imply any form of approval of my company or its products by MSE"
  • Thanks for your replies guys.
    Just to clear a couple of things up - they do have the deeds so the problem is purely to do with the leasehold. There have been other houses sold on the road recently so this is how we suspected it was leasehold in the first place. I'm just not sure that he has paid the ground rent for a few years and there is still the question of whether he bought the lease.

    I just wish we could find a quick solution!!
  • If the house hasn't been sold for over 50 years, it's probably not registered with HMLR. It will have to be once it is sold, but that's no help now.

    Sounds like the son and daughter-in-law can't find the deeds. These may have been kept in a safe place - like a bank, or a solicitor's office - of which the family is completely unaware. There may have been no will also.

    What makes you/your solicitor think that the place is or was leasehold? (If it's part of a very old development, all the properties could have been leasehold with the same freeholder.)

    Surely your solicitor has copied you into the correspondence with the vendor's solicitor? What answers are they waiting for now?

    They haven't copied me into the correspondence, is this normal practice? They told me they still have 3 enquiries and I had to push to find out what these actually were. This is what they have asked for:
    a copy of the document K18 dated 23 Dec 1958
    ground rent receipt
    confirmation of the amount that will have to be paid with the notice as the lease refers to a guinea

    How long should it take to get these things? What if they can't?
  • cattie
    cattie Posts: 8,841 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Most people will have paid ground rent via a cheque, so is it not possible to check with the bank to see where a regular amount may have gone to a currently unidentified party say each year or 6 monthly? It wouldn't be for a huge figure as ground rents are normally very low.
    The bigger the bargain, the better I feel.

    I should mention that there's only one of me, don't confuse me with others of the same name.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 346.7K Banking & Borrowing
  • 251.4K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 451.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 238.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 614.3K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 174.8K Life & Family
  • 252.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.