Cancelling under Distant Selling Regulations

unholyangel

WTFH wrote: »

unholyangel, so are you saying that there must be two documents? Will one document not be sufficient?
i.e. if the document sent prior to placing the order contains all the information required to fulfil articles 4 & 5, then why would a second document be required?

It wouldn't.

If you send the necessary information in a durable medium that is available and accessible to the consumer prior to the contract conclusion then you have satisfied article 5.

However, making a PDF available for download prior to conclusion does not satisfy article 5 so if you chose to operate your business as such, you'd have to satisfy article 5 in another manner if you didn't want to be responsible for return postage costs or didnt want to give your consumers the unconditional right to cancel for 3 months.

WTFH

unholyangel wrote: »

It wouldn't.

If you send the necessary information in a durable medium that is available and accessible to the consumer prior to the contract conclusion then you have satisfied article 5.

However, making a PDF available for download prior to conclusion does not satisfy article 5 so if you chose to operate your business as such, you'd have to satisfy article 5 in another manner if you didn't want to be responsible for return postage costs or didnt want to give your consumers the unconditional right to cancel for 3 months.

So, if they send a PDF direct from the website prior to the conclusion of the contract, does that satisfy 4 & 5?

Where the PDF contains the information required by 4 & 5, i.e.
Article 4 is information to be provided before contract conclusion
and
Article 5 is where the retailer has to send written confirmation of pre-contractual information, cancellation rights etc in a durable medium.


And if not, why not (or does that now depend on your definition of durable medium)

halibut2209

And going right back to the start, I'd argue not because it involves the installation of additional software

WTFH

halibut2209 wrote: »

And going right back to the start, I'd argue not because it involves the installation of additional software

So does receiving an email, or browsing the internet.

Also, you don't need to download anything extra to view a PDF, but that depends on the browser you are using - Firefox & Chrome can render them without additional software. IE might be able to, but it's buggy as anything so I wouldn't trust it.

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/view-pdf-files-firefox-without-downloading-them#w_using-the-built-in-pdf-viewer

How does sending a PDF contravene article 4?

halibut2209

All operating systems come with email and internet browsers. And it's very well accepted that both are needed for online shopping. Adobe Reader isn't

And rendering them online "on the fly" would not be classed as durable in the same way that a webpage isn't durable

WTFH

halibut2209 wrote: »

All operating systems come with email and internet browsers. And it's very well accepted that both are needed for online shopping. Adobe Reader isn't

Not correct. Some operating systems come with email clients. Due to EU laws, Windows does not come with Internet Explorer, you have to choose to install it.

But still, that doesn't negate the fact that you don't need to download anything to view a PDF.
I.e. Adobe Reader is not needed to be downloaded for online shopping. (as I stated above)

WTFH

halibut2209 wrote: »

And rendering them online "on the fly" would not be classed as durable in the same way that a webpage isn't durable

But if you have already downloaded the PDF, you can open it in your web browser - you are not rendering it on the fly, you are opening a durable downloaded file.

So, the web browser which you didn't need to install can view a saved PDF file on your computer.

halibut2209

But by that argument, by viewing terms as text on a website means you've downloaded a cache version of the website and that's not considered durable

unholyangel

WTFH wrote: »

So, if they send a PDF direct from the website prior to the conclusion of the contract, does that satisfy 4 & 5?

And how are they sending it direct from the website?

WTFH

halibut2209 wrote: »

But by that argument, by viewing terms as text on a website means you've downloaded a cache version of the website and that's not considered durable

I'm not arguing for viewing cached files from a website - I'm saying that if you download a PDF you do not need to install any software to view it - your claim earlier was that you had to install software. I've pointed out that you clearly do not need to install anything.

Step 1. Website sends you PDF, you do not have Adobe Acrobat installed.
Step 2. You unplug your computer from the internet. This means it's not going to be able to download any installation files, and you won't be looking at a rendered version of a webpage.
Step 3. You run CCleaner and delete all your internet cache. This means nothing is saved to cache. You won't be able to view anything you have looked at on the internet.
Step 4. You go to your downloads folder and open the PDF with your web browser.

You therefore have a durable file on your computer that you can view without needing any additional software, so what's wrong with that?