Is it really that expensive?

Trebor16

PollySouthend wrote: »

Norway is the most expensive country in Europe, and probably the world so its a very bad example to pick!

It doesn't change the fact that the UK has 2nd worst for fuel poverty in europe.

The UK is second only to Estonia among European nations for the number of people who are struggling to pay their energy bills, according to research by the fuel poverty alliance Energy Bill Revolution.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-10-25/fuel-poverty-energy-david-cameron-government/

Let me remind you what you said in post 32:-

"there are other cold countries, but the Nordics, germany and that have a much higher wage.

that is why the UK has the 2nd highest level of fuel poverty in europe, after Slovakia. "

I then demonstrated that higher wages are meaningless if costs are much higher and showed that with Norway as a very good example. The UK showed up very well in terms of disposable income with the countries that you mentioned.

Yet you have failed to respond to this specific point and keep banging on about fuel poverty.

So, how about an answer to specific questions that have been put to you.

By the way, that link you are using to show we are the second highest for fuel poverty in Europe is very light on facts and figures.

PollySouthend

Trebor16 wrote: »

Let me remind you what you said in post 32:-

"there are other cold countries, but the Nordics, germany and that have a much higher wage.

that is why the UK has the 2nd highest level of fuel poverty in europe, after Slovakia. "

I then demonstrated that higher wages are meaningless if costs are much higher and showed that with Norway as a very good example. The UK showed up very well in terms of disposable income with the countries that you mentioned.

Yet you have failed to respond to this specific point and keep banging on about fuel poverty.

So, how about an answer to specific questions that have been put to you.

Sorry what questions? You don't have a single question mark!

The fact is people in the UK are spending a higher percentage of their income on fuel than anywhere else in western Europe.

Trebor16

PollySouthend wrote: »

Sorry what questions? You don't have a single question mark!

The fact is people in the UK are spending a higher percentage of their income on fuel than anywhere else in western Europe.

So you keep on saying, but you still don't respond to other points that you have made where you have been shown to have given erroneous information.

givememoney

PollySouthend wrote: »

No you remain stupid for missing the whole point of my post, let me repeat it;

It's all relative.

This post by the aptly named "give me money" just sounds like some retired person with a generous pension that bought their house when it cost peanuts and has no idea the struggle many people have these days.

Right let's go, so you think we didn't struggle eh! How wrong you are.

My `generous pension` you talk of is in fact the state pension of £428.16 per 4 week period and a pension from my work place of £201 per month = £153.58 per week (I paid into the work pension by the way it wasn't handed to me on a plate and the same goes for the state pension).

My husband gets more state pension because he didn't opt out of Serps his is around £220 per week plus a private pension of £100 per month (again what he paid in for).

Yes the price of our house seems laughable now, it was £26,000 back in 1979, but I was at home looking after our two small children and the only money coming in was my husbands. I'd be lying if I said I knew exactly what he was earning back then because he and I can't remember but it was probably around the £60 - £70 per week mark, as you are fond of saying, `it is all relative`. What I do remember is all he had left each week was about £1 after mortgage, rates, insurance, food, fuel etc.

He was in the furniture trade and they regularly went on short time and we had to manage on less money. I remember a particular instance when our daughter wanted to go on a school trip to the Isle of Wight and we just didn't have the money and I was very upset for her.

What this did teach us was to spend very, very, wisely, we never wasted anything. We had old cars that were forever breaking down which DH patched up. I made all the kids clothes and my own. I remember another time I had made myself a dress with all the time and effort that involved, plus the minimal expense and I spilt bleach on it and ruined it, I cried my eyes out. DH did all household repairs and decorating (still does). I made curtains. Holidays were in caravans and tents. Take aways never existed, we couldn't afford them, we never smoked, couldn't afford that either. I never went abroad until I was 44.

I worked part time in Sainsbury when daughter was 4 and son 2 to help out and hated every minute of it, but did it for 8 years because it fitted in around the children. Once I started working I saved what I could.

Finally when they left school and started to earn their own money was the time when things started to get better for us financially and as time went we paid up our mortgage as we have lived in the same house for 34 years.

I am 66 now and continued working up to I was 64 so I think people like me deserve a rest for the time we have left. I help out with the grandchildren and lead a busy life.

We struggled so don't you tell me otherwise.

Andy_WSM

Wow, this has escalated into a right scrap fest

sheffield_lad

PollySouthend wrote: »

Norway is the most expensive country in Europe, and probably the world so its a very bad example to pick!

It doesn't change the fact that the UK has 2nd worst for fuel poverty in europe.

The UK is second only to Estonia among European nations for the number of people who are struggling to pay their energy bills, according to research by the fuel poverty alliance Energy Bill Revolution.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-10-25/fuel-poverty-energy-david-cameron-government/

I can't to see the actual document which explains this poll anyone got a link?

The reason I ask is fuel poverty by definition is the amount of disposable income spent on fuel NOT after paying for mobiles, sky etc I have not much left in the kitty for my gas.

I might be wrong but I am always wary of polls which come from 'action groups/charites'

One look at the actual document would put my mind at rest

lstar337

givememoney wrote: »

Right let's go, so you think we didn't struggle eh! How wrong you are.

My `generous pension` you talk of is in fact the state pension of £428.16 per 4 week period and a pension from my work place of £201 per month = £153.58 per week (I paid into the work pension by the way it wasn't handed to me on a plate and the same goes for the state pension).

My husband gets more state pension because he didn't opt out of Serps his is around £220 per week plus a private pension of £100 per month (again what he paid in for).

Yes the price of our house seems laughable now, it was £26,000 back in 1979, but I was at home looking after our two small children and the only money coming in was my husbands. I'd be lying if I said I knew exactly what he was earning back then because he and I can't remember but it was probably around the £60 - £70 per week mark, as you are fond of saying, `it is all relative`. What I do remember is all he had left each week was about £1 after mortgage, rates, insurance, food, fuel etc.

He was in the furniture trade and they regularly went on short time and we had to manage on less money. I remember a particular instance when our daughter wanted to go on a school trip to the Isle of Wight and we just didn't have the money and I was very upset for her.

What this did teach us was to spend very, very, wisely, we never wasted anything. We had old cars that were forever breaking down which DH patched up. I made all the kids clothes and my own. I remember another time I had made myself a dress with all the time and effort that involved, plus the minimal expense and I spilt bleach on it and ruined it, I cried my eyes out. DH did all household repairs and decorating (still does). I made curtains. Holidays were in caravans and tents. Take aways never existed, we couldn't afford them, we never smoked, couldn't afford that either. I never went abroad until I was 44.

I worked part time in Sainsbury when daughter was 4 and son 2 to help out and hated every minute of it, but did it for 8 years because it fitted in around the children. Once I started working I saved what I could.

Finally when they left school and started to earn their own money was the time when things started to get better for us financially and as time went we paid up our mortgage as we have lived in the same house for 34 years.

I am 66 now and continued working up to I was 64 so I think people like me deserve a rest for the time we have left. I help out with the grandchildren and lead a busy life.

We struggled so don't you tell me otherwise.

Sounds exactly like our life now, only I can't have a mortgage because house prices are so high that my salary wont cover it. Instead I will pay rent for probably the rest of my life and have nothing to show for it at the end of the day. Oh, and I don't have enough disposable income to pay into a private pension either.

Happy Days!:D

sheffield_lad

lstar337 wrote: »

Sounds exactly like our life now, only I can't have a mortgage because house prices are so high that my salary wont cover it. Instead I will pay rent for probably the rest of my life and have nothing to show for it at the end of the day. Oh, and I don't have enough disposable income to pay into a private pension either.

Happy Days!:D

Sounds like you need to think about a career change or a bit of re education IE distance learning degree. It can make a huge difference to your living standards but requires a bit of graft and loss of watching TV with your feet up.

I know as I did it

Cardew

sheffield_lad wrote: »

I can't to see the actual document which explains this poll anyone got a link?

The reason I ask is fuel poverty by definition is the amount of disposable income spent on fuel NOT after paying for mobiles, sky etc I have not much left in the kitty for my gas.

I might be wrong but I am always wary of polls which come from 'action groups/charites'

One look at the actual document would put my mind at rest

If you google 'fuel poverty definition' there are loads of websites.

This is apparently the Government definition:

In England, fuel poor households are defined by the UK government as those needing to spend more than 10% of their total household income before housing costs on all fuel used to heat their homes to an acceptable level (DETR, 2001).

It is the 'fuel used to heat their homes' that is ambiguous.

Presumably that doesn't mean all gas and electricity consumed??

For instance a pal of mine (not that he is poor) spends a fortune on pumps and heating for his Koi carp and indoor fish tanks.

The average gas/electricity bill is £1,340. So if you have average consumption what proportion of that is for heating - £800??

So are we saying that if your total income in the household is over £8,000 you are not in fuel poverty?

Or would it be over £13,400 taking the total spend on gas/electricity.

Take someone using double the UK average using £2,680. Would they be in fuel poverty if the household income was £25,000?

insanegloss

I can't help but thinking the very definition of fuel poverty is almost meaningless. After all you could have the perverse example of someone with a lot of money who spends a lot on fuel, the remaining amount would be large in absolute terms but still 'fuel poor'.

Surely the definition should be related to disposable income, after all this the measure of how 'wealthy' someone feels.