Lemon tree advice please

Foxy_Snob

Hi All

After a bit of advice from you, please!

I have two lemon trees. They're about 3 feet high, and were bought for me Feb/March 2013. Both had lots of leaves and fruit at this point. The care label said 5-10 degrees, so I put them in the (unheated) spare room, around 3 feet back from the north-facing window. I watered them. Too much, I think. They weren't happy and suffered a major leaf drop, around 95% on one, and all but 1 leaf on the other.

Roll on May. I took off the (ripe) fruit and put them outside, in a sheltered, sunny spot. This made them very happy! Lots of new leaf growth, lots of flowers. Didn't water them much, literally passed the hose over the soil every 2 or 3 days.

I was warned they didn't like the cold, so when the night temperature started dropping below 5, I brought them in. That's about a month ago. They are in my lounge (not heated yet, this is MSE, afterall!), a few feet from a large, south-facing window. I'm watering them with (not very much) tepid water, with Citrus winter feed in it, about once a week.

I've seen about 4 mature leaves drop from one, and a couple of very new, not fully formed leaves, from both. Last leaf to drop was about 10 days ago. One has no more flower buds, and the other is opening it's last few.

So. I'd like not to lose them. I'm nervous about leaves dropping, I presume this is a bad thing. Am I doing the right things for them? Are they in the right place? Is there something I should stop doing? Or start doing? Any other advice?

Thank you!

DaftyDuck

I grow lemon trees (Kent coast) and mine are still outside. I'll start bringing them in at night in a week or two, and mine live in a conservatory.

Maximum light, very little water over winter is key. Let the soil dry out until the top is almost dusty dry. Never, ever leave them sitting in water. Possibly misting the leaves will help them adapt to the dryer indoor air.

Leaves are shed throughout the year, so there will always be some leaf loss. There will be a shock effect from bringing them inside, and that's the time that misting will help most.

The regular problem with citrus-type fruits that crop up again and again is overwatering. Once a week? Might not be too much, but it's sure not too little.

The period of drought they should get over winter, with the subsequent increase in moisture in spring, is what encourages next year's flowering and growth.

Fingers crossed for you.

Foxy_Snob

DaftyDuck wrote: »

I grow lemon trees (Kent coast) and mine are still outside. I'll start bringing them in at night in a week or two, and mine live in a conservatory.

Maximum light, very little water over winter is key. Let the soil dry out until the top is almost dusty dry. Never, ever leave them sitting in water. Possibly misting the leaves will help them adapt to the dryer indoor air.

Leaves are shed throughout the year, so there will always be some leaf loss. There will be a shock effect from bringing them inside, and that's the time that misting will help most.

The regular problem with citrus-type fruits that crop up again and again is overwatering. Once a week? Might not be too much, but it's sure not too little.

The period of drought they should get over winter, with the subsequent increase in moisture in spring, is what encourages next year's flowering and growth.

Fingers crossed for you.

Thanks Dafty.

I'm in the Midlands. Garden is fairly sheltered, but North facing. I thought the lightest place would be best, and that's the lounge. I was concerned about the heat once I light the fire though?

The shock period you mention would explain the few leaves, I guess. I haven't misted them, but will do so now. I thought a weekly watering was too much, but that's what the instructions said on the Winter Feed pot. I'll ignore it, and water when I remember, works with the rest of my houseplants!

DaftyDuck

The feeding as well, it just struck me as I sat outside for lunch, in the sun, surrounded by citrus and olive trees and bees, and even eating a couple of strawberries (I did say Kent seaside, didn't I ).

I'd not be fertilising at all until growth starts again in spring. Certainly not for plants indoors in relatively dark environment. South - facing window may help, but it's only getting light from one direction, not from all sides, so probably a quarter to a tenth of the light it was getting. Certainly not enough for vigorous growth that requires fertiliser!

As to the warmth of a heated house over winter... that'd not be good. Unheated spare room? Porch? Garage window?

Mine get an unheated conservatory or greenhouse, and temps certainly go down to 4 or 5ºC with no harm. If yours are going to stay warm, they'll try & grow, they will need water, they will need light... that is pretty difficult to achieve a balance through a winter.

Foxy_Snob

DaftyDuck wrote: »

The feeding as well, it just struck me as I sat outside for lunch, in the sun, surrounded by citrus and olive trees and bees, and even eating a couple of strawberries (I did say Kent seaside, didn't I ).

You can go off people, you know :rotfl:

DaftyDuck wrote: »

I'd not be fertilising at all until growth starts again in spring. Certainly not for plants indoors in relatively dark environment. South - facing window may help, but it's only getting light from one direction, not from all sides, so probably a quarter to a tenth of the light it was getting. Certainly not enough for vigorous growth that requires fertiliser!

The food says it contains less nitrogen which discourages new growth because winter growth is weak and yellow... Discouraging growth seemed a good idea, in the winter... Should I not feed then, and just water minimally?

DaftyDuck wrote: »

As to the warmth of a heated house over winter... that'd not be good. Unheated spare room? Porch? Garage window?

Choices are:
Garden - sheltered, but North, no greenhouse but have lots of fleece.
Kitchen - Darker than lounge and North, but unheated unless cooking.
Lounge - light with a 2m wide South window, but heated by a multi-fuel burner. Gets coal in the coldest, darkest days, so temp reaches 24+. Not ideal, I know.
Spare room - North, unheated. Gets light, but no sunlight at all. They were unhappy there last winter (although, could be I watered too much with v. cold water).
Bedroom - Unheated, but above lounge, so gets some warmth and has a 2m south facing window.
No porch or garage. Certainly no conservatory (yet - it's on the wishlist though!)

DaftyDuck wrote: »

Mine get an unheated conservatory or greenhouse, and temps certainly go down to 4 or 5ºC with no harm. If yours are going to stay warm, they'll try & grow, they will need water, they will need light... that is pretty difficult to achieve a balance through a winter.

I have an allotment, with a polytunnel on it. I don't know what temperature that goes down to though, it's a new thing this year. It's just a plastic cover over a metal frame, in the middle of an exposed field though, so I'd presume they need more than that? Plus, I'd like to see that it lasts the winter without blowing away or collapsing etc, before putting anything that matters in it.

DaftyDuck

Foxy_Snob wrote: »

You can go off people, you know :rotfl:

Good job I didn't mention the melon and grapes for breakfa ... ah um...

Anyway, now you really hate me, I'll kill your lemon trees out of spite Frankly, I'd give no fertiliser to mine at all until Feb. Well, maybe one dose as a Christmas pressie. (I'll look in my couple of citrus books, and edit this if I'm wrong;))

I think cool and dry is better than warmer, right down to freezing point and even below for short periods. Light is important, but not so important when they are cool and dry, as they are dormant. Make them warm, and they'll need light.... and water!

You have two. It might be worth separating them, and seeing what is best for future years... hoping neither do really badly. North facing midlands garden sounds a bit harsh. I did OK in Norfolk, but that was south-facing, and very sheltered - a sun-trap really. Lounge - FAR too hot (but sounds cosy). Bedroom sounds good for one. Spare room wasn't good last year, so maybe not there. The polytunnel does sound good - bit of extra fleece or bubble wrap for the lemon, lots of weight holding polytunnel down. Me, I'd do bedroom & polytunnel.

Actually, thinking about it... allotment... polytunnel. Now I really hate YOU! Bah... Pah.... harumph!

Foxy_Snob

DaftyDuck wrote: »

Good job I didn't mention the melon and grapes for breakfa ... ah um...

Pah, I had freshly cooked hot smoked salmon for mine. I reckon that beats your pansy fruit hands down

DaftyDuck wrote: »

Anyway, now you really hate me, I'll kill your lemon trees out of spite Frankly, I'd give no fertiliser to mine at all until Feb. Well, maybe one dose as a Christmas pressie. (I'll look in my couple of citrus books, and edit this if I'm wrong;))

Makes sense. I guess the "Winter" fertiliser is a a way to sell food even when the plant is dormant.

DaftyDuck wrote: »

I think cool and dry is better than warmer, right down to freezing point and even below for short periods. Light is important, but not so important when they are cool and dry, as they are dormant. Make them warm, and they'll need light.... and water!

Really?? That cold? Does it ever get that cold where they grow naturally? What if they have fruit (they don't, but I read that they can have fruit all year round)?

DaftyDuck wrote: »

You have two. It might be worth separating them, and seeing what is best for future years... hoping neither do really badly. North facing midlands garden sounds a bit harsh. I did OK in Norfolk, but that was south-facing, and very sheltered - a sun-trap really. Lounge - FAR too hot (but sounds cosy). Bedroom sounds good for one. Spare room wasn't good last year, so maybe not there. The polytunnel does sound good - bit of extra fleece or bubble wrap for the lemon, lots of weight holding polytunnel down. Me, I'd do bedroom & polytunnel.

No, you're right first time, lounge goes WAY beyond cosy!
Bedroom and tunnel it is... though I'm a little dubious... It's the second one - first one blew down. I think it was faulty, it only lasted a week or so, but still, I only have a wary confidence in the new 'un as yet. I shall wrap the pot in a double layer of bubble wrap, and fleece the tree itself. And shut the windows!

DaftyDuck wrote: »

Actually, thinking about it... allotment... polytunnel. Now I really hate YOU! Bah... Pah.... harumph!

Hate me next year. It's not really an allotment, yet. It was just a field, but it's turning into one. Hard work though.

ally18

Aaarrrggghhh, my lemon tree has now lost every single one of its leaves. It has the one solitary large lemon still hanging on for dear life which was there when I bought the tree back in May. I really don't want to lose the tree completely, what can I do please?

I am keeping the tree in my hall where it is cooler, the pot itself sits on a bed of gravel (I heard this tip from MD) so not having much water but it gets no light whatsoever. I have no where to put it to get light and no where outside either that the wind won't get at it.

In addition, my orange tree is also in the hall, that still has some leaves on but will lose them all eventually. All the oranges that started growing in summer have dropped off too.

I'm going to lose them both aren't I?

DaftyDuck

ally18 wrote: »

..... but it gets no light whatsoever. .....


I'm going to lose them both aren't I?

Yes you are, without doubt, if they get no light. Above all, everything, they need light. I have lemons outside at the moment. It was heavy frost last night, it will do it again tonight. There is a gale blowing, and the water butt has run off with some flowerpots. The lemons will be fine. They have all their leaves, and many fruit.

I will bring those under some shelter to keep the worst of the winter snow and rain off them, but they will probably stay outside. I do have some cosseted in a greenhouse, and some in a conservatory, so I have rather spread my bets.

Lemons need almost no water over winter. They need no fertiliser. Most can handle freezing temperatures. They do need light. As much as possible, even at the risk of being outside in the cold.

Best advice I can give is: take that lemon off, make a G&T and relax. Then, stick the trees outside, in as sheltered a spot as you can. South facing, sunny against a wall if possible. Cover the pot with stones to trap any heat if possible. Do not water. Indeed, cover the pot with some polythene to stop it soaking if it rains. If the night time temperature is dropping below 5°C, bring them in for the night. Keep fingers crossed. (Obviously, if you have greenhouse, conservatory, or grand Orangery, that would be better. A cool (NOT HOT) south-facing window would do. Cold outside is better than warm 20°C sitting-room south facing window.)

Then, in late Feb if the weather is half decent, start really watering and fertilising. Never let it stand in moisture, but pour that water on, and over the foliage too. That should wake the lemon up from dormancy, and it should start to grow leaves and flowers.

If it does, be kind, and don't stick it in the dark next year.

ally18

Thank you so much for your reply.

I will have to put them both outside then tomorrow and will do as you advise about covering the pots to prevent them getting too wet. Then fingers crossed.

DaftyDuck

ally18 wrote: »

Thank you so much for your reply.

I will have to put them both outside then tomorrow and will do as you advise about covering the pots to prevent them getting too wet. Then fingers crossed.

Mini greenhouse a possibility? They're not ideal for the coldest days, but they'd help. Good luck, anyway!

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