Did the union get it badly wrong? Grangemouth Refinery

Southend1

TheSaint wrote: »

This appears to smell like a militant union with no clue about the facts of life at the moment. Unions should be there to stand up for the little guy, but be reasonable with the employer. They are after all providing employment. If you don't like it you should vote with your feet and get another job.


Too often a union thinks it can bully an employer to the detriment of all else. So many companies go bust thanks to the union not wanting to modernise.


I am very much with Thatcher on the unions

A union doesn't think of it's own accord. A union is its members, therefore it does what its members want, democratically.

Nobody would dispute that negotiations should be reasonable. It seems in this case the employer was not prepared to negotiate at all.

TheSaint_2

Southend: true, but the union rarely represents the majority. I feel that on the big issues such as strike all employees should vote rather than just the members.


The union at my place is listened to by the employer, but most of the time it is bleating about things most employees do not want. We don't get to vote on a pay deal - which irritates me and others.


We don't want to join because we don't want to associate with that sort of group. Catch 22 I know.

Takeaway_Addict

Southend1 wrote: »

A union doesn't think of it's own accord. A union is its members, therefore it does what its members want, democratically.

Nobody would dispute that negotiations should be reasonable. It seems in this case the employer was not prepared to negotiate at all.

Neither were the union by the looks of it. And you cannot tell me there wasn't pressure from the union to reject any offers.

ILW

DKLS wrote: »

Funny last place I worked that had a union, the rep proudly announced he had negotiated a 2% payrise, I had to keep quiet as I wasnt in the union and had negoitiated an 8% for myself

Central pay bargaining does tend to encourage mediocrity.

[Deleted User]

Hi,

unions also tend to indoctrine the mind of members, most like sheep, will follow the leader, but some have a mind of their own.

mountainofdebt

Southend1 wrote: »

A union doesn't think of it's own accord. A union is its members, therefore it does what its members want, democratically.

Nobody would dispute that negotiations should be reasonable. It seems in this case the employer was not prepared to negotiate at all.

I agree -but I bet there's many a union / union official that has a political axe to grind and so no doubt put a spin on things to put the fear of god into people, making them think the worst etc

as for this particular dispute, I bet it would have alot to do with the way that the union approached the whole sorry affair

Southend1

TheSaint wrote: »

Southend: true, but the union rarely represents the majority. I feel that on the big issues such as strike all employees should vote rather than just the members.


The union at my place is listened to by the employer, but most of the time it is bleating about things most employees do not want. We don't get to vote on a pay deal - which irritates me and others.


We don't want to join because we don't want to associate with that sort of group. Catch 22 I know.

The union ALWAYS represents the majority..... Of members.

So if you want to be represented you do have to join.

If you feel the union is talking about things you and your colleagues aren't interested in then why not join and go along to workplace meetings or become a rep?

Southend1

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

Neither were the union by the looks of it. And you cannot tell me there wasn't pressure from the union to reject any offers.

But the members would have made up their own minds and voted accordingly.

Southend1

mountainofdebt wrote: »

I agree -but I bet there's many a union / union official that has a political axe to grind and so no doubt put a spin on things to put the fear of god into people, making them think the worst etc

as for this particular dispute, I bet it would have alot to do with the way that the union approached the whole sorry affair

Nothing to do with the employer then?

zildjian

Ultimately, the personal issues between the employer and the union appears to have played a significant impact on the business decisions.

"The problem here is that ego most often clouds the judgement of the leader"
A quote from a Harvard Business School research (on a general point, not on Grangemouth).

Judging from what i have seen on the news etc you could hazard a guess that both sides of the table potentially suffered from this.