Did the union get it badly wrong? Grangemouth Refinery

ILW

DKLS wrote: »

Why dont unions hire people who are talented at negotiating?

Many do.
Unite prefer playing politics though.
Most their leaders still think it'ts the 1970s.

DKLS

ILW wrote: »

Many do.
Unite prefer playing politics though.
Most their leaders still think it'ts the 1970s.

Funny last place I worked that had a union, the rep proudly announced he had negotiated a 2% payrise, I had to keep quiet as I wasnt in the union and had negoitiated an 8% for myself

Southend1

DKLS wrote: »

Funny last place I worked that had a union, the rep proudly announced he had negotiated a 2% payrise, I had to keep quiet as I wasnt in the union and had negoitiated an 8% for myself

Though the union wage premium in the UK is currently around 17% so your individual experience, while valid as an individual experience, doesn't actually reflect the general situation.

jacques_chirac

Southend1 wrote: »

Though the union wage premium in the UK is currently around 17% so your individual experience, while valid as an individual experience, doesn't actually reflect the general situation.

A figure which means nothing when you look at the differences between the two comparators. You do understand that statistics should rarely be taken at face value?

Southend1

jacques_chirac wrote: »

A figure which means nothing when you look at the differences between the two comparators. You do understand that statistics should rarely be taken at face value?

Of course, there is a higher ratio of professional people in unions these days and this has a bearing on the overall figures. However, take for example sales and customer service staff where the average non union worker earns £7.68 ph. The average union worker earns £8.80 or around 15% more.

jacques_chirac

Southend1 wrote: »

Of course, there is a higher ratio of professional people in unions these days and this has a bearing on the overall figures. However, take for example sales and customer service staff where the average non union worker earns £7.68 ph. The average union worker earns £8.80 or around 15% more.

What is this 'average' you refer to? More statistics that have been tailored to support a certain viewpoint?

DevilsAdvocate1

bap98189 wrote: »

Yes a lot of people in the plant are well paid. It's the oil industry; many will be highly qualified engineers and scientists; almost all will be working shifts.

These people got well paid jobs. But so what? Should everyone who earns more than the minimum wage be grateful and accept whatever salary cut their employer decided to implement? How would you like it is your employer came along and announced they were reducing your pay and pension starting tomorrow. Would you just accept it? I know I wouldn't.

This is exactly what happened around 5 years ago at the company my husband works for. All staff agreed to a 10% pay cut plus 1 year where nothing was paid into the pension scheme. In return, there would be no redundancies for a set period of time, so no one would lose their job.

Their wage - 10% was still way way more than they would get on benefits, so the staff agreed that this was the best way forward.

I suspect the employees at Grangemouth are kicking themselves now as they will be far worse off than if they had taken a cut.

Southend1

jacques_chirac wrote: »

What is this 'average' you refer to? More statistics that have been tailored to support a certain viewpoint?

Are you disputing the figures or the way I'm using them?

TheSaint_2

This appears to smell like a militant union with no clue about the facts of life at the moment. Unions should be there to stand up for the little guy, but be reasonable with the employer. They are after all providing employment. If you don't like it you should vote with your feet and get another job.


Too often a union thinks it can bully an employer to the detriment of all else. So many companies go bust thanks to the union not wanting to modernise.


I am very much with Thatcher on the unions

[Deleted User]

Hi,

hee hee, the Unite union representative will still have a job at the end of this, whatever the outcome, no chance of him losing his house with not being able to pay his mortgage.