Music Lesson 'agent'

RedBern

Hi my son teaches music on a part time basis and is looking to set up an agency (for want of a better word) where he'll have a number of different teachers for different instruments, and he'll take bookings and pass details on. He will then take a cut from the lessons. He's not going to be employing the other music teachers, they'll be self employed (as will he).

So, firstly, does he just get them to sign something saying that they're responsible for their own tax/NI? Secondly, what's the best way to take payment for the lessons - he's thinking the different teachers will then invoice him and he'll pay them, minus his cut.

He's got his website set up and 5 other teachers all ready - they'll be doing lessons for adults so no CRB (or whatever it's called now) checks. Any other advice?

thanks

Errata

Not all of this will apply and it's an exclusive contract, but it shoud give him stuff to ponder over. eg He is their contractor, they are responsible for their tax/NI, adults can be classed as vulnerable and a CRB check protects to some extent him, the teachers and those being taught. and ect etc
http://musicoffice.com/LegalLibrary/PDF/Agent_Exclusive_Artist_Agreement.pdf

antrobus

RedBern wrote: »

... Any other advice?.....

Your son might need a licence.

RedBern wrote: »

.... He's not going to be employing the other music teachers, they'll be self employed (as will he). ....

I'd take proper legal advice on that issue. If son is going to be collecting the money from the customers and then handing it over, minus his cut, to the other music teachers; HMRC might well regard that as employment irrespective of son's opinion on the matter.

paddyrg

What antrobus says - if he's taking the money they may be employees, a situation you want to avoid. If all the teachers are properly self-employed and can demonstrate it (think this used to be called schedule D), and they get clients directly as well as indirectly you're probably going to be OK, but it has to be clear cut and they must actually *be* registered self employed.

Poaching of clients will be a potential issue if the cut is to high. If a teacher fails to perform or deliver, as an agent he'll also be stuck in that dialogue, could get messy.

Instead has he considered an introduction fee of the first 2 lessons (say) costs? It's clean cut, easy to show HMRC that there is no employer/employee relationship and he gets to step out of any quibbles as it's all just direct and he can take the cash on the back end up front. The student will also feel they're not paying an agency premium. If the agency premium was say 10%, 2 sessions money would equate to 20 lessons commission-wise. Not knowing how many people stick with it beyond 20 lessons, but I'll bet it balances out pretty well.

Atidi

RedBern wrote: »

Hi my son teaches music on a part time basis and is looking to set up an agency (for want of a better word) where he'll have a number of different teachers for different instruments, and he'll take bookings and pass details on. He will then take a cut from the lessons. He's not going to be employing the other music teachers, they'll be self employed (as will he).

So, firstly, does he just get them to sign something saying that they're responsible for their own tax/NI? Secondly, what's the best way to take payment for the lessons - he's thinking the different teachers will then invoice him and he'll pay them, minus his cut.

He's got his website set up and 5 other teachers all ready - they'll be doing lessons for adults so no CRB (or whatever it's called now) checks. Any other advice?

thanks

I hope you realise you should have a written contract in place, even if it's just a purchase order, with each teacher you hope to use the services of.

I suggest you seek independent legal advice over what that contract wording says as you may have to rely upon it later to get your money or avoid being taken to the cleaners as the case may be.

Your legal represetative will hopefully ensure the contract wording is not unenforcible in any way, such as suggesting the teacher has to pay their own tax when they are in fact considered as employed by you and so you would therefore be responsible.
Worst case secenario is that if any part of the contract is found to be unenforcible, then the whole written contract is considered unenforcible, but again hopefully your legal advisor will ensure that is not the case.

Why don't you keep it simple and employ the teachers yourself?
That way you can be sure your customers are supplied by the actual teacher you think. One test of not being an employee is if the supplier can substitute who they provide to supply the service.
You could employ them on what used to be called a casual basis, or nowdays seems to be termed a zero hours contract, if you don't want to commit to giving the employees a specific number or working hours per day/week etc. i.e you can call upon them to work as and when you have work for them.

Whatever the set up, you could either collect payment yourself from your clients and pay the teachers as agreed (as salary or upon receipt of their invoice as appropriate), or if the teachers are not your employees, then the other alternative is that you act as an agent sourcing teachers, and the teachers then get paid by the clients you find them, with the teacher giving you some kind of commission for the paid work you found them.

Having the website up & running with 5 teachers already on board without first having all this detail bottomed out does seem to somewhat be a case of putting the cart before the horse, running before you can walk, etc. :eek:

googler

How many lessons are the teachers paying a cut from? The first? The first few? All of them?

If I were a teacher, I wouldn't pay any more than an introduction fee. I certainly wouldn't be giving up an ongoing percentage. What happens if a student stays with the teacher for years? Would the agent still be expecting a cut of the lesson fee, five years on?

From the point of view of the student, why would I go through the agent when I can just go to the teacher direct? What extra value is the agent offering?

There are already websites which aggregate many music teachers into one portal covering the whole of the UK. What will this website offer that the existing ones don't?

Atidi

googler wrote: »

How many lessons are the teachers paying a cut from? The first? The first few? All of them?

If I were a teacher, I wouldn't pay any more than an introduction fee. I certainly wouldn't be giving up an ongoing percentage. What happens if a student stays with the teacher for years? Would the agent still be expecting a cut of the lesson fee, five years on?

That's the way all agency workers operate
An introduction fee only would only usually apply if the agency only offered an introduction service.

googler wrote: »

From the point of view of the student, why would I go through the agent when I can just go to the teacher direct? What extra value is the agent offering?

Perhaps the student doesn't know of the individual teacher or how to contact them.
The role of any employment agency is to find those seeking particular services and those that can offer those services and bring them together

googler wrote: »

There are already websites which aggregate many music teachers into one portal covering the whole of the UK. What will this website offer that the existing ones don't?

I guess that's a bit like asking why did Tesco ever set up in business, when Sainsbury's already existed, why did comparethemarket.com set up when confused.com already existed, why did Metro bank set up when Barclays already existed, and from your username, why did google set up when yahoo already existed.

Mistral001

This business seems like a non-starter to me to be honest. What is the OP's son bringing to the table which would make a tutor hand over a percentage to him?

Music tutoring is not a well paid job. Some really struggle even when they get lots of pupils, so asking them to pay a fee might be a problem.

Atidi

Mistral001 wrote: »

This business seems like a non-starter to me to be honest. What is the OP's son bringing to the table which would make a tutor hand over a percentage to him?

Music tutoring is not a well paid job. Some really struggle even when they get lots of pupils, so asking them to pay a fee might be a problem.

Students (i.e. paying customers) hopefully.

I don't know why teachers struggle if they are fully booked, perhaps they should be charging more for their sevices if they are so popular.

My guess is that most private teachers struggle because they are not fully booked, and hopefully in exchange for a small commission, such an agency will bring those teachers more work. That's presumably why 5 teachers have already signed up to the agency.

Without the agency attracting more students to the teachers, then I agree the business would be on a course to failure.

googler

Atidi wrote: »

That's the way all agency workers operate

An introduction fee only would only usually apply if the agency only offered an introduction service.

I'm strugging to see what the OP's site is offering other than an introduction. What involvement will the OP have in the lessons on an ongoing basis?

This one offers introductions over the whole of the UK, and it's free. What will the OP's site do that this one doesn't?

http://www.musicteachers.co.uk/

googler

RedBern wrote: »

So, firstly, does he just get them to sign something saying that they're responsible for their own tax/NI? Secondly, what's the best way to take payment for the lessons - he's thinking the different teachers will then invoice him and he'll pay them, minus his cut.

So ... student comes in, is referred to a teacher by your son, and continues lessons for, say 6 months or a year.

Your son will be taking the money from this student, a year later, and paying this on to the music teacher, having deducted his cut?

How long do you think the students will keep this up? Won't they start saying, after a couple of weeks or so, to the teacher - "Why can't I just pay you each week?" .....